‘We need to win arguments and build society at peace with itself’
In his last Martin Shipton Meets podcast of the current series, our chief reporter talks with Blaenau Gwent Labour AM Alun Davies about the state of the Labour Party and what he sees as the dangerous political times we live in
PROGRESSIVE forces need to win a “culture war” against those who have turned Britain into a society that is not at peace with itself, according to Labour AM Alun Davies.
During the latest Martin Shipton Meets podcast, Mr Davies revealed that he has a panic button by his bed because of the toxic political environment created by Brexit.
The Blaenau Gwent AM also said he has no faith in Jeremy Corbyn’s ability to win a general election: “I don’t see him as a future Prime Minister – it’s as simple as that, really.
“I don’t see him as somebody who has the ability to do what I’ve suggested needs doing: to be able to articulate an alternative to austerity.
“I was very impressed with Tony Blair – I’m one of those people who still think that Tony Blair did a fantastic job in government.
“People can point out errors and mistakes. When the Day of Judgement arrives, let the innocent go first. I won’t be the first in that queue.
“But he did address child poverty in Blaenau Gwent, which fell during Blair’s time in office. I can take you to 1,000 people who’ll say that tax credits have made a huge difference to their families. And the way we invested in the NHS: the budget of the Welsh Government doubled in his time in office. Anybody who seeks to decry Labour’s time in office from 1997 until 2010 are making fundamental errors of judgement in terms of their politics.”
So far as Brexit is concerned, Mr Davies – a fervent supporter of the UK remaining in the EU – said: “I think we need to do three things. We have to win the argument that being part of the EU is good for our economy. It’s good for us as a country, as a people – to believe that not every day is the Last Night of the Proms, although I did enjoy all the European flags being waved on Saturday night. We need to win the argument on social, economic and cultural grounds to remain a part of the EU.
“I think we do need a referendum – we can’t do it the way the Liberals are suggesting, simply through a vote. I don’t think doing referenda by votes in Parliament is a good thing at all.
“Then we need to do two things which are more important. We need the economics which move away from austerity by investing in people and investing in places – and investing in people who need the opportunity to take them forward, and places that are fragile. The economy of Blaenau Gwent is a fragile economy and we need investment in our towns, our town centres, but in our people as well.
“Then we need to do one other thing, in some way for our children’s future. This is potentially the most important thing. We need to win almost a culture war with these people.
“We need to win an argument that people are not bad because they speak a different language, because they worship in a different place, because they come from a different town, because we don’t understand the language they speak, have a name we’re not familiar with.
“We have to win an argument which is against chauvinism, against racism, against discrimination, and build the sort of country we started building. You’ll remember Cool Cymru in 1997 and all these different things going on at the end of the 1990s, and build a society that is at peace with itself.
“At the moment society is not at peace with itself. We have institutions that are under attack. I have a panic button next to my bed. I didn’t go into politics for that. I didn’t go into politics to have people talking to my children about decisions I take and interviews I give. We have to remake our politics.
“We also have technological changes. The way we interact with the state is going to change. How does a socialist, and someone like me who wants to see greater democracy respond to that?
“How do you regulate Google? How do you regulate Amazon? We’re not going to do that in Cardiff Bay. We can do it at a European level – you can’t do it in Westminster either, although they think they can.
“How do we regulate these multinational mega-corporations? These are the questions for the future.
“We’ve got to be radical, far more radical than we have been in the past – and more radical than perhaps we understand.”
When it was put to him that he’s been sacked twice from the government by successive First Ministers, and that while he was seen as capable, he was also seen as a maverick who was prone to going “off piste” on occasions, he said: “I didn’t come into politics to be a minster, I came into politics to deliver for people I represent. The greasy pole has never been something that I see as a particularly attractive way to spend one’s life.
“I’ve never put myself forward as an easy minister. But what I’ve tried to do is tell the truth. For me, telling the truth as one sees it is the important responsibility I have as a politician.
“I have a very privileged position. I know that every time I walk into a chamber and speak on behalf of the people I represent. How do you exercise that privilege?
“I think we have a number of responsibilities, one of which is to tell the truth as we see it. That is not always comfortable.”
Reflecting on his failed attempt to reform local government, which resulted in his dismissal from the Cabinet by First Minister Mark Drakeford, Mr Davies said: “I do not believe it is right and proper that a country of three million people has 22 local authorities. I don’t believe that many people believe it either. But politicians do. And it’s uncomfortable for politicians to be told by another politician that frankly the Emperor has no clothes, that this is not working, that we have not reformed devolved Wales enough, that we have not reformed the governance of devolved Wales enough. We still have largely the structures that existed prior to devolution. That means we need more reform. That’s not popular in the chamber. It’s not popular in my own party, it’s not popular in any party – although privately, if you’re in the Eli Jenkins [pub in Cardiff Bay] or the [Senedd AMS’] tea room, everybody will agree with you. I’ve lost count of the number of politicians I’ve heard stand up and say something, where they’ve said something completely different to me in private. That’s a matter for them.
“But we do need in facing these enormous challenges of our time politicians who are prepared to say: ‘do you know what? I don’t think that’s right’.”