Donations-gate: FM faces questions
FIRST Minister Vaughan Gething yesterday faced questions from senior Senedd figures about his decision to accept a total of £200,000 in donations from a man guilty of environmental offences.
The Welsh Labour leader continued to deny he did anything wrong in accepting the money from Dauson Environmental Group, which is a company run by a man who was prosecuted for illegally dumping waste on a conservation site.
Facing the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister for the first time, he said: “I followed all of the rules that I am required to do so.”
However, there is currently deep disharmony among some Labour MSs over his judgement and handling of the issue.
On S4C’s Y Byd yn ei Le on Thursday evening, Beth Winter, the Labour MP for Cynon Valley, said Mr Gething “shouldn’t have accepted the money” from the company and called for an independent investigation.
On Tuesday, it was announced that former First Minister Carwyn Jones would lead a review into Welsh Labour’s campaign rules and would look at campaign finance.
Revelations that the owner of the company who contributed to Mr Gething’s leadership campaign had borrowed £400,000 from the Development Bank of Wales (DBW), which is wholly owned by the Welsh Government, threatens to take the saga to Westminster levels of “sleaze”, Plaid Cymru’s leader Rhun ap Iorwerth MS has said.
The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew RT Davies MS, has said that unless there is an independent investigation, Mr Gething will “find it impossible to govern”.
Yesterday Plaid Cymru MS Llyr
Gruffydd MS told the First Minister: “I’m not going to ask you whether you registered the donation that you received as part of your leadership campaign to become First Minister. The process was followed, as you’ve explained, that processes were followed, so there’s no need to repeat that in your response to my question.
“My question is around your judgement, because we now know that you knew where the donation was coming from when you took the money, and I’d like to ask really, why do you think that you were right to accept that donation?”
Mr Gething said: “As you acknowledge, I followed all of the rules that I am required to do so. A business I engage in my constituency that has not only employed current members of my constituency, but also has improved what it has done in addressing those regulatory governance issues that were there.
“And the challenge is always, if you’re not going to have state funding of parties or campaigns, where and how are you going to raise money? How do you do that? You make sure that you follow the rules, make sure that you set out what you’re going to do and set out clearly that the position you set out as a candidate is not compromised by the multiple sources of funding that have all been declared.
“So if you look at what I’ve said for example on environmental governance, I’ve been clear that there will be an increase in standards. So when the environmental governance bill that is due to come before the Senedd in the last year of the Senedd’s term, that is not going to be changed or watered down. You can expect to see the same ambition that was not just in my manifesto, but also in my opponent’s manifesto to be delivered.
“So, there is no shift or downward turn in ambition, and this is actually about the reality of politics costs quite a lot of money, you’ve got to raise money and then you’ve got to set out what you want to do if you get the opportunity to take a leadership position, which is what I’m now able to do following a one member, one ballot.”
Mr Gruffydd referred to the fact Mr Gething’s opponent, Jeremy Miles, said he would not have taken the donation money had he been in the same position.
He also referred to the fact Labour MP Beth Winter also said she would not have taken that donation money herself and has even called for an independent inquiry.
He said a recent poll found that two-thirds of those that took part said that the money should be paid back.
“Why are they all wrong, and you are right?” Mr Gruffydd asked Mr Gething.
He then added: “Surely on reflection, you must have an element of regret that you took that money?”
In response, Mr Gething said: “I think the challenge here is that we can talk about the issue again and again, and I understand why some people want to. I haven’t done anything outside the rules at any point to what I was supposed to do in making sure that those donations were declared to the Electoral Commission and to the standards of Senedd, and actually what I need to do is to get on with the job that people want me to.
“You mentioned polls, well, a poll produced yesterday showed that my approval rating has actually increased in the last month when there’s actually been lots of comments about this. I think that’s because people in their own lives are interested in what happens and I’ve been entirely open and honest about what has taken place.
“I’ve also been entirely open and honest about my priorities for the country.”
He added: “I understand that people are concerned about the NHS, I understand we needed to make progress on 20mph – that’s what I’m going to be focusing on doing. And it’s up to you if you want to spend your time on it, I’m interested in bigger priorities for families and the future of Wales.”
The Plaid Cymru MS said: “But there’s no bigger priority than the judgement of the First Minister, the integrity of the First Minister, so what you’re saying now is that you’re not showing no regret, no remorse?”
Mr Gething replied: “Well, where is the question about my integrity?”
Mr Gruffydd said: “Surely there is a question about judgement here that you knew exactly who was paying this money in, many of your colleagues within your own party are saying they would not have touched that money, you did surely have to reflect on that and accept that maybe under the ministerial code, perception is just as important as reality, isn’t it? And there are questions to ask about whether that was the right call to make. Many people are saying it was the wrong call that you made, but clearly you have a blind spot for that.”
Mr Gething replied: “No, it’s entirely appropriate to say that people disagree and they do sometimes.
“Question about the ministerial code I think is a widespread misunderstanding. The former First Minister [Mark Drakeford] looked at whether donations breached the code; his clear view was that having taken advice, they don’t.
“And I think the danger, the difficulty here is, there has been no breach of the rules, there’s not been a breach of the code but you still want to carry on having a conversation, demanding, ‘Well, there must be – have an investigation and find out there must be a breach somewhere.’
“Well, there is no breach in relation to the DBW, there’s no breach in relation to the code, and simply because other people want to say there must be that doesn’t mean there’s a perception of breach.
“That is actually about your conduct, not about if people want to talk it up. And actually there are no questions about my integrity that are real or legitimately clear. I have been honest through out this, about what I have done, and why.
“I have been entirely honest about that, it’s something I take seriously, in my professional career before coming here and in my time in office. All the difficult choices we make, if you want to say there are questions about my integrity, you need to say what they are rather than you disagreeing or other people disagree on how you actually fund politics today outside asking the public to do that. I don’t think there’s any appetite for that.”
Welsh Conservative MS James Evans told the committee the public’s confidence in the wider Welsh Government has been “shaken”.
“The public has to expect that the Welsh Government is working on their behalf,” he added, addressing Mr Gething.
“And they have to expect that you are going to work on their behalf as the First Minister of Wales, representing Wales, not just within our country but on the international stage as well.
“How can you ensure, and ensure the wider electorate, that you are the best person for this job? Because I think currently the jury is out at the minute on whether you are. And I think you need to answer why you are the best person for this job. You were elected on a small mandate from Labour party members, not the wider electorate.
“I think it’s your job to reassure the public, who will be watching this today that your judgement is sound and that you’ve made the best decisions in the interest of Wales and not just to become the First Minister of Wales”.
In response, Mr Gething said: “If we look at what happened, it was one member, one ballot across the Welsh Labour and trading union council.
“I am very proud to have won, it’s a real honour to lead my country and my party.
“Not everyone gets through a leadership contest. I know there were coronation processes rather than contest in other parties. That happens sometimes – that isn’t a point of criticism, that is what has happened.
“It doesn’t mean you undermine the legitimacy of that person doing that job. That’s entirely appropriate for the people in their own parties following their own rules and that is how it is.
“I think to try and suggest that having gone through an election and you don’t have a mandate, is not something that bears much to subjective scrutiny.
“Then you do a point of what the public think, and I know that politics is always in pursuit of their own view for the view of the public, and yet you actually look at poll evidence and how people vote and feel, it just doesn’t support the contention you make.
“It doesn’t support the contention you make in polling terms, or in terms of how people feel about me and my first month in office.”
» ‘I think people feel he has let the party, himself and all of us down’: Pages 22&23