IN CONVERSATION WITH…
THE BESTSELLING AUTHOR, STELLA RIMINGTON
DAME STELLA RIMINGTON JOINED THE SECURITY SERVICE (MI5) IN 1968. DURING HER CAREER SHE WORKED IN ALL THE MAIN FIELDS OF THE SERVICE: COUNTER-SUBVERSION, COUNTERESPIONAGE AND COUNTER-TERRORISM. SHE WAS APPOINTED DIRECTOR GENERAL IN 1992, THE FIRST WOMAN TO HOLD THE POST. SHE HAS WRITTEN HER AUTOBIOGRAPHY AND NINE LIZ CARLYLE NOVELS. SHE HAS TWO DAUGHTERS, SOPHIE AND HARRIET, AND LIVES IN NORFOLK WITH HER LABRADOR, MOLLY.
I WAS FOUR WHEN THE SECOND WORLD WAR BROKE OUT. AFTER MOVING FROM LONDON TO ESSEX, WE ENDED UP IN BARROW-IN-FURNESS IN CUMBRIA WHERE MY FATHER GOT A JOB. THAT AREA SUFFERED HEAVY BOMBING AND I REMEMBER SEEING SEARCH LIGHTS AND TRACER BULLETS. IT WAS VERY SCARY.
THE WAR AFFECTED ME IN VARIOUS WAYS. THE BOMBING OF BARROW AND THE AIR-RAID EXPERIENCES MADE ME QUITE A NERVOUS CHILD, AND I DID SUFFER FROM CLAUSTROPHOBIA FROM MY TEENS TO MY EARLY TWENTIES.
MY PARENTS INFLUENCED ME A LOT. MY MOTHER CAME FROM LANCASHIRE AND MY FATHER FROM YORKSHIRE, AND THEY BOTH BELIEVED THAT YOU MUST NEVER GIVE UP. THEY WERE PRETTY STOIC.
AFTER UNIVERSITY I BECAME AN HISTORICAL ARCHIVIST IN WORCESTER COUNTY ARCHIVES. I MOVED TO LONDON, WHERE I GOT A SIMILAR JOB IN THE INDIA OFFICE LIBRARY, TO BE
WITH MY HUSBAND JOHN, WHO WAS IN THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE. WE HAD MET AT SCHOOL IN NOTTINGHAM, AND GOT MARRIED IN 1963.
IN 1965, WE MOVED TO NEW DELHI WHERE I BECAME A DIPLOMAT’S WIFE. I’D NEVER BEEN FURTHER THAN LUXEMBOURG AT THAT TIME AND WE SET OFF ON THIS FANTASTIC THREE-WEEK VOYAGE THROUGH THE SUEZ CANAL AND THE RED SEA AS WE SLIPPED INTO THE ORIENT. IT WAS THE STUFF OF DREAMS.
WHILE WE WERE THERE, I WAS OFFERED A JOB WITH MI5. ALL I REALLY KNEW WAS THAT THEY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH SPYING, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE A NICE CHANGE FROM COFFEE MORNINGS AND JUMBLE SALES! SO I STARTED IN A PART-TIME ROLE AS A CLERK TO A MAN HELPING INDIA WITH ITS SECURITY.
WHEN WE CAME BACK TO THE UK, I WAS KICKING MY HEELS. AT JOHN’S SUGGESTION, I CONTACTED MY FORMER BOSS FROM INDIA AND ENDED UP GOING FOR AN INTERVIEW AT THE MI5 OFFICES IN LONDON WHERE I GOT A JOB AS A JUNIOR ASSISTANT OFFICER.
IN THOSE DAYS, MI5 RAN A TWO-TIER CAREER STRUCTURE. THE WOMEN HAD THE SUPPORT ROLES AND MEN WERE THE SHARP-ENDERS WHO DID THE SPYING WORK. AT THAT POINT, THERE WERE ONLY ONE OR TWO WOMEN
LIKE ME WHO HAD GOT DEGREES AND PREVIOUS CAREERS BUT WHO THEN FOUND THEMSELVES AS SECOND-CLASS OPTIONS.
THAT ONLY BECAME AN ISSUE WHEN MI5 STARTED TO RUN OUT OF THE SORT OF MEN THEY HAD TRADITIONALLY RECRUITED. THOSE TENDED TO BE EX-MILITARY AND EX-COLONIAL OFFICERS, WITH WIVES WHO RAN THE HOME. THEY DIDN’T QUITE UNDERSTAND WOMEN LIKE ME. WHEN THEY STARTED TO RECRUIT YOUNGER MEN DIRECTLY FROM UNIVERSITY WHO HAD EXACTLY THE SAME QUALIFICATIONS, WE BEGAN TO THINK, HANG ON A MINUTE, WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?
WE MOUNTED A QUIET REVOLUTION. WE WANTED TO BE CONSIDERED FOR THE SAME JOBS AS MEN. THAT WAS WHEN THE BOSSES BEGAN TO REALISE THAT WOMEN WERE HUMAN BEINGS AND COULD ACTUALLY DO THINGS.
MI5 IS OUR COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE SERVICE. WE WORKED TO PREVENT OTHER PEOPLE FROM SPYING ON THIS COUNTRY, AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT WE HAD TO BE SPIES TO FIND OUT THE NECESSARY INFORMATION, AND COUNTER-SPIES IN ORDER TO SCUPPER OTHER PEOPLE’S EFFORTS TO SPY ON US.
I DON’T THINK WOMEN MAKE BETTER OR WORSE SPIES THAN MEN. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT QUALITIES, BUT I’M A GREAT
FAN OF DIVERSITY IN EVERY WAY.
WORKING AGAINST A FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ISN’T DANGEROUS. YOUR JOB IS TO TRY TO RECRUIT PEOPLE WHO, AS A RESULT, MIGHT BE IN DANGER. FOR EXAMPLE, IF A MEMBER OF THE KGB IS TO SPY FOR YOU THEN YOU NEED TO TRY AND PROTECT HIM.
ONE OF THE DISADVANTAGES OF WORKING IN A SECRET ORGANISATION IS THAT OF COURSE YOU CAN’T TELL EVERYBODY WHAT YOU DO. I WOULD JUST SAY THAT I WORKED FOR SOME GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT. OF COURSE MY HUSBAND KNEW. BUT I DON’T SUPPOSE MY MOTHER KNEW. THE GIRLS CERTAINLY DIDN’T, ALTHOUGH WHEN MY NAME WAS ANNOUNCED, SOPHIE SAID SHE’D ALWAYS KNOWN I WAS A SPY.
I WAS THE FIRST WOMAN IN THE PROFESSIONAL RANK TO GO BACK TO WORK AFTER HAVING HAD A BABY, SOPHIE, IN 1971. BACK THEN YOU GOT THREE MONTHS MATERNITY LEAVE. THERE WAS NO PART-TIME WORK OR JOB SHARES, EVEN WHEN WOMEN BEGAN TO BREAK THROUGH IN THE 70S. I DID FEEL GUILTY WHEN THE GIRLS WERE BABIES. NOT NOW. BUT GUILT IS A WOMAN’S LOT.
“I was most in danger when my name was revealed while the IRA were very active”
JUGGLING WORK AND HOME LIFE WAS HARD. I MANAGED WITH THE HELP OF A NANNY AND THEN LATER ON, AFTER JOHN AND I HAD SEPARATED, AU PAIRS AND GRANNIES. JOHN AND I HAVE NEVER GOT DIVORCED. WE JUST GREW APART AND NEITHER OF US HAS MADLY FELT THE URGE TO MARRY ANYBODY ELSE SO IT DIDN’T SEEM NECESSARY.
MY CAREER IN MI5 WAS VARIED AND INTERESTING. I SPENT QUITE A LOT OF TIME IN COUNTER-ESPIONAGE AT THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR, WHEN THE MAIN THREAT TO BRITISH SECURITY CAME FROM THE SOVIET UNION AND THEIR ALLIES IN EASTERN EUROPE. SO WE TRIED TO WORK OUT WHAT SPIES FROM
THE OTHER SIDE WERE DOING AND TRYING TO SCUPPER THEIR ACTIVITIES IN THIS COUNTRY.
THE TIME I WAS MOST IN DANGER WAS WHEN I BECAME DIRECTOR GENERAL
AND MY NAME WAS REVEALED BY HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT. WE HAD ALWAYS LIVED IN AN ORDINARY LONDON STREET WHERE I WAS SAFELY ANONYMOUS. IT WAS WHEN THE IRA WERE ACTIVE IN LONDON SO MY YOUNGER DAUGHTER, THE DOG AND I HAD TO LEAVE QUICKLY AND LIVE UNDER COVER. IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE HARRIET WAS ONLY 17 AND HAD TO WORK OUT WHICH OF HER FRIENDS SHE COULD RELY ON. AFTER MY RETIREMENT IN 1996, I JOINED VARIOUS BOARDS AND CHARITIES. AFTER A COUPLE OF YEARS, I REMEMBER STANDING IN THE POURING RAIN OUTSIDE THE MARSDEN HOSPITAL THINKING, WHY AM I DOING ALL THIS AND RUSHING ABOUT LIKE A MAD THING?
I DIDN’T THINK I
COULD WRITE MY AUTOBIOGRAPHY. EVERYTHING WAS TOO SECRET. HOWEVER, I WAS PERSUADED AND SENT IT TO BE CLEARED BY WHITEHALL. SOMEONE SENT IT TO The Sun! THERE WAS A FURORE, WHICH BECAME EMBARRASSING AND NASTY. THEN IT WAS PUBLISHED TO SOME ANTICIPATION, WHICH SOON TURNED TO DISAPPOINTMENT BECAUSE I HADN’T REVEALED ANYTHING I SHOULDN’T HAVE.
WRITING THAT GAVE ME A TASTE FOR THE BOOK WORLD. WHEN I WAS APPROACHED TO WRITE A NOVEL I AGREED, ALTHOUGH I NEEDED A LOT OF HELP WITH IT. NOW I ONLY HAVE SOMEONE TO HELP ME WITH THE RESEARCH.
MY MAIN CHARACTER, LIZ CARLYLE, COMES FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE. HOWEVER, SHE’S A MODERN INTELLIGENCE OFFICER WHO CAN DO AND SAY ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT I COULDN’T THEN. IDEAS FOR MY BOOKS COME TO ME FROM WHAT I SEE HAPPENING. FOR Breaking Cover, I SAW RUSSIA TRYING TO DESTABILISE AND UNDERMINE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES. FROM THAT I IMAGINED
THE SITUATION WHERE THEY WERE SENDING ILLEGALS INTO THE UK TO CAUSE TROUBLE AND STIMULATE VARIOUS BREAKAWAY MOVEMENTS WHO WOULD DISTURB THE STATUS QUO.
I REALLY BELIEVE I’VE GOT A BALANCE IN
LIFE AT LONG LAST. I ENJOY WRITING, READING, WALKING THE DOG AND PUBLIC SPEAKING, TO SEEING MY DAUGHTERS AND GRANDCHILDREN. I JUST ENJOY EACH DAY
AS IT COMES ALONG.