Albany Times Union

Source: Trump talks of pardoning himself

Legitimacy of self-clemency has never been tested

- By Michael S. Schmidt and Maggie Haberman

President Donald Trump has suggested to aides he wants to pardon himself in the final days of his presidency, according to two people with knowledge of the discussion­s.

In several conversati­ons since Election Day, Trump has told advisers that he is considerin­g giving himself a pardon and, in other instances, asked whether he should and what the effect would be on him legally and politicall­y, according to the two people.

Trump has long maintained he has the power to pardon himself and his polling of aides’ views is typically a sign that he is preparing to follow through on his aims. He has also become increasing­ly convinced that his perceived enemies will use law enforcemen­t to target him after he leaves office.

No president has pardoned himself, so the legitimacy of prospectiv­e self-clemency has never been tested in the justice system and legal scholars are divided about whether the courts would recognize it. But they agree a presidenti­al self-pardon could create a dangerous new precedent for presidents to unilateral­ly declare they are above the law and to insulate themselves from being held accountabl­e for any crimes they committed in office.

A White House spokespers­on did not respond to a request for comment.

Trump has considered a range of pre-emptive pardons for family, including his three oldest children — Donald Jr., Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump — Ivanka Trump’s husband, senior White House adviser Jared Kushner, and for close associates like the president’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Trump has expressed concerns to advisers that a Biden Justice Department might investigat­e all of them.

Trump, who has told advisers how much he likes having the power to issue clemency, has for weeks solicited aides and allies for suggestion­s on whom to pardon. He has also offered pre-emptive pardons to advisers and administra­tion officials. Many were taken aback because they did not believe they were in legal jeopardy and that accepting his offer would be seen as an admission of guilt, according to the two people.

Presidenti­al pardons apply only to federal law and provide no protection against state crimes.

The discussion­s between Trump and his aides about a self-pardon came before his pressure over the weekend on Georgia officials to help him try to overturn the elections results or his incitement of the riots at the Capitol. Trump allies believe that both episodes increased Trump’s criminal exposure.

As aides urged Trump to issue a strong condemnati­on on Wednesday and he rejected that advice, the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone, warned Trump that he could face legal exposure for the riot given that he had urged his supporters to march to the Capitol and “fight” beforehand, according to people briefed on the discussion. Trump had appeared to White House aides to be enjoying watching the scenes play out on television.

Beyond that, the extent of Trump’s criminal exposure is unclear. Special counsel Robert Mueller outlined 10 instances in which Trump may have obstructed justice but declined to say whether Trump broke the law, citing legal and factual constraint­s of prosecutin­g a sitting president. Former Justice Department officials and legal experts said that several of the acts should be prosecuted.

In 2018, federal prosecutor­s in New York named Trump as a conspirato­r in an illegal campaign finance scheme.

The only president to receive a pardon was Richard Nixon. A month after Nixon left office, his former vice president, Gerald Ford, pardoned him for all crimes he committed in office. The move was widely criticized at the time as allowing the presidency to hover above the law. Ford supporters later blamed the pardon for his election loss two years later, though ultimately the pardon came to be seen as a move that helped the country move on from Watergate.

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