Tying up some loose ends on button-down shirt topic

Q. In response to last week’s column, I have two other thoughts about those button-down collar shirts: Some brands have never figured out the formula for the roll and have exaggerated it into a big loop. Also, a Windsor knot looks ridiculous with a button-down shirt.

A. Yes, you are correct on both points.

Eek! Not both collar points, both concepts.

Each one is an important aspect of the subject. It is always gratifying to receive emails from knowledgeable readers.

I’m glad you brought up the “roll.” I wrote that some designers and manufacturers make shirts with collar points on button-down collar shirts that are a bit too short. This results in stretched-taut collars without the soft roll that is essential to the informal air of the button down. What I failed to mention is the opposite: the collar you describe that’s a bit too long, so the curve is exaggerated and too pronounced. In truth, this mistake is not as common as the manufacturers’ attempts to be cool with their too-short collar points, but it does happen on occasion. Among the companies that make a perfect button-down collar are Brooks Brothers, Jos. A. Bank and Lands’ End.

Your second point is even more important. There should definitely be a connection between a man’s shirt collar and the necktie knot he chooses. This is all part of the “spirit” concept I was explaining, where the various clothing elements in a combination work well together because each part is harmonious, appropriate and in keeping with the others. If you were referring to full-Windsor knots, they are out of style and out of proportion for today’s more narrow ties.

Shirt collars nowadays are also typically more narrow and shorter than they were a while back, to go with the trimmer fits and slimmer lapels that are in style. A collar’s shape and size largely determine the kind of knot you will tie, either a four-in-hand or a half-Windsor. As you point out, a button-down collar is best with a four-in-hand knot. The same is true for a standard (nonspread) collar, one with short, straight points. The knot particularly suits the newer, smaller collars.

I do want to make a pitch for the half-Windsor knot for those who like spread collars (and especially wide-spread collars). That space between the points needs more knot than a four-in-hand provides. If you’ve ever seen a guy with a skimpy knot lost in the gaping valley of a wide-spread collar, you know how strange it looks. Thus, the half-Windsor.

Many men do not like the conservative four-in-hand knot for a few reasons, such as:

It is always somewhat asymmetrical and askew. It is very conservative. It is slightly casual. It is quite narrow. On the other hand, it is ideal with button-down collar shirts.

Then there are men who prefer the fashionable half-Windsor. Why?

It is precisely triangular and always symmetrical. It is a little more stylish. It goes with dressier suits and blazers.

It fills the space created by spread collars.

Even though a man’s personality, field of work and lifestyle may direct him toward one or the other, a well-dressed man need not limit himself to tying only one knot or wearing only one type of shirt collar. His specific clothing choices allow for some flexibility. When he is dressed more casually, he can choose the four-in-hand knot and a button-down collar shirt. When he is more formally put together, the half-Windsor might be more appropriate with a spread collar shirt. Button-downs have their limits, which is why Webster’s definition of the adjective “button-down” is “conservatively traditional or conventional.”

When options are available, why restrict yourself unnecessarily?

This week’s and last week’s columns may be more information than you ever wanted to know on button-down collar shirts!