Giuliani: Trump can pardon self but won’t
President’s lawyer cites ‘political ramifications’
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump probably has authority under the Constitution to pardon himself, his lawyer Rudy Giuliani asserted Sunday, but he said the president will not do so as he fights a special counsel investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election and whether Trump obstructed justice.
Questions about the scope of Trump’s executive powers have intensified with the weekend disclosure of a 20-page letter that the president’s former legal team sent to special counsel Robert Mueller in January.
The letter, which was first disclosed by The New York Times, claims that the president has unchecked authority over federal investigations and could legally act to end them or “even exercise his power to pardon.”
Democrats have reacted with incredulity to the argument laid out in the letter, likening it to Richard Nixon’s infamous assertion in 1977 — three years after he resigned the presidency to avoid impeachment — that if the president does something, it can’t be illegal.
“The President’s legal arguments would render whole sections of the Constitution moot, and allow a president to engage in any form of criminality and obstruct an investigation into his own wrongdoing,” tweeted Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif. “Nobody is above the law. Not this President. Not any president.”
Giuliani, who recently joined Trump’s legal team as his personal attorney, defended the letter Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” including its suggestion that Trump has the power to self-pardon if he is in legal jeopardy.
“He probably does,” said Giuliani, who has taken a more combative public stance toward the Mueller investigation than Trump’s former lawyers. “He has no intention of pardoning himself, but that doesn’t say he can’t.”
The former New York City mayor said the “political ramifications” of the president pardoning himself “would be tough.” He outlined the political danger later on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” saying a presidential self-pardon “would probably lead to immediate impeachment.”
Courts have never ruled on the issue, but most legal scholars challenge the notion that presidential powers extend that far.
The question took on added scrutiny last week when Trump ignored the traditional Justice Department review process and abruptly granted a full pardon to Dinesh D’Souza, a provocative conservative author and filmmaker, who pleaded guilty to violating federal campaign finance laws in 2014.
Trump said he also is considering pardoning TV personality and lifestyle mogul Martha Stewart, and pardoning or commuting the sentence of former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich. Both were stars with Trump on NBC’s “The Apprentice” franchise.
Since the clemency would involve convictions for obstruction of justice, lying to federal investigators or corruption, critics saw Trump’s moves as a signal to former aides facing Rudy Giuliani said a Trump self-pardon “would probably lead to immediate impeachment.” jail time or potential prosecution.
Four former members of his campaign or administration have pleaded guilty but have not been sentenced. Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, has pleaded not guilty to nearly two dozen charges.
On Saturday, Trump took to Twitter to dismiss the Mueller probe as a “scam investigation.”
On Sunday, he distanced himself from Manafort, a veteran Republican operative. Manafort “came into the campaign very late and was with us for a short period of time,” Trump tweeted.
In his talk show appearances, Giuliani repeated his assertion that the president’s lawyers would wage a court fight rather than obey a subpoena to force Trump to testify to a grand jury in the Mueller probe.
A court battle almost certainly would l ast months, extending through the November elections, and could end up at the Supreme Court.
Trump may agree to a voluntary interview, but only under agreed-upon terms, the president’s lawyer said.
“I mean, we’re leaning toward not,” Giuliani said. “But look, if they can convince us that it will be brief, it would be to the point, there were five or six points they have to clarify, and with that, we can get this — this long nightmare for the — for the American public over.”
Giuliani also argued that if Trump sits down with Mueller’s team, any inconsistencies with his previous statements or the record would result from innocent confusion, not malfeasance.
“This is the reason you don’t let the president testify,” Giuliani said. “Our recollection keeps changing, or we’re not even asked a question, and somebody makes an assumption.”