Chauvin’s supervisor testifies that he wasn’t immediately told of knee on Floyd’s neck, length of time

MINNEAPOLIS — Derek Chauvin’s supervisory sergeant detailed to jurors Thursday afternoon the immediate aftermath of George Floyd’s death as word of the incident spread through Police Department administration.

Retired Third Precinct Sgt. David Pleoger fielded concerns through 911 dispatch on May 25 about possible excessive use of force by officers while detaining Floyd, and his initial assessment was that it sounded more like a less serious “takedown,” according to dispatch audio from that night. He then headed to the scene while questioning Chauvin on what happened.

“Not really, but had to hold the guy down, he was going crazy … wouldn’t go in the back of the squad,” Chauvin is heard telling his sergeant over the phone on his body-worn camera.

Pleoger then testified that Chauvin did not immediately tell him that he placed his knee on Floyd’s neck. And when Chauvin made that disclosure later that night, he did not say for how long, the sergeant added.

The sergeant, who reviewed officers’ body-worn camera video, was asked when use of force against Floyd should have ended. He replied: “When Mr. Floyd was no longer offering up any resistance to the officers, they could have ended their restraint.”

Was that when Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground, prosecutor Steve Schleicher asked? “Yes,” Pleoger replied.

Pleoger also testified that he was told by Chauvin that Floyd “became combative … after struggling with him. He suffered a medical emergency and an ambulance was called.”

Asked whether Chauvin mentioned any use of force, Pleoger said he recalled, “I don’t believe so.”

Body-camera footage from the scene captures Pleoger instructing Chauvin and officers Tou Thao, Thomas Lane and J. Alexander Kueng to speak with witnesses.

“We can try, they’re all pretty hostile,” Chauvin said.

Pleoger then headed to HCMC and instructed Chauvin and Thao to do the same. Once there, he eventually learned Floyd had died and the situation was now a “critical incident.”

Pleoger said he spoke with Chauvin at HCMC that night, and it was then that he learned the officer had his knee on Floyd’s neck, but Chauvin did not disclose how long that contact lasted. He notified the lieutenant on duty and separated Chauvin and Thao for interviews.

Pleoger said he asked Chauvin if other force was used.

“He said he knelt on Floyd or knelt on his neck,” Pleoger testified.

“Is that the first time you became aware that force had been applied to George Floyd’s neck?” Schleicher asked.

“Yes,” he said.

“Did the defendant tell you how long he applied pressure to his neck?”

“No.”

“And at some point did you receive another update on Floyd’s medical condition?”

“Someone approached me and let me know that he passed away.”

Defense attorney Eric Nelson established while questioning Pleoger that the sergeant has made thousands of arrests in his long career and sometimes used force.

“Would you agree with the general premise that the use of force is “not necessarily attractive [and] sometimes officers have to do very violent things

[and] it’s a dangerous job?” Pleoger replied, “Yes.”

Nelson also again hinted at the argument that the officers were concerned about the angry bystanders when he asked whether it was more important to deal with the immediate threat than a medical emergency. Pleoger said he would try to deal with both simultaneously.

“For example, if you were in a gun battle, and someone was shooting at you, and someone went into cardiac arrest, would you stop what you were doing to mitigate the threat or to immediately perform CPR?” Nelson asked.

“I’d mitigate the threat,” Pleoger said.

The what to do and when kept up as the two sides wrapped up their questioning of Pleoger at the end of the day’s proceedings.

The sergeant agreed with prosecutor Steve Schleicher that if a suspect is no longer resisting, then police restraint is not long needed. Pleoger’s answers were the same should a suspect no longer have a pulse or stopped breathing.

And also stop restraining a suspect who is no longer resisting in order “to render medical attention?” Schleicher asked. Again, the sergeant said, “Yes.”

Nelson followed and got Pleoger to agree that giving medical aid on the spot might not be wise if there was an especially agitated crowd nearby or if a suspect were in a busy street “with buses and cars going by.” Both those circumstances, Nelson has suggested during the trial, were present during Floyd’s arrest.

In general, the defense attorney said, officers need to assess “the totality of the circumstances and not just one single factor.” The sergeant again agreed with Nelson.

Earlier Thursday, one of the paramedics who responded to the scene where George Floyd lay unresponsive under Chauvin’s knee testified that he immediately suspected Floyd was dead.

Hennepin EMS paramedic Derek Smith said that he checked Floyd’s pulse while three officers were on the patient, and did not detect one. He also checked his pupils, which were dilated.

“I looked to my partner, I told him ‘I think he’s dead,’ and I want to move this out of here and begin care in the back,’” Smith said, noting the agitated crowd of bystanders. “In a living person, there should be a pulse there. I did not feel one. I suspected this patient to be dead.”

However, they continued to work on Floyd in the rear of the ambulance, including directing Officer Thomas Lane to deliver chest compressions while they attempted various lifesaving attempts en route to HCMC, where Floyd was later officially pronounced dead.

Smith said Floyd never regained a pulse, but they continued attempting to save him.

“He’s a human being,” Smith said. “I was trying to give him a second chance at life.”

Under cross-examination, Nelson asked Smith why he had Lane do chest compressions when he is not an EMT. Smith said he did not know Lane’s level of training, but that “any layperson can do chest compressions.”

“I wanted as many people who were available at that time to help me with this cardiac arrest,” Smith said.