‘Across the Divide’ aims for political civility
On one side was Lilly Goren, a Carroll University professor whose specialties include politics, pop culture and all things “Mad Men.”
On the other was Rick Esenberg, founder of the conservative public interest law firm Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty.
But Goren and Esenberg didn’t come to Maxie’s restaurant Tuesday night to do political battle. Instead, in front of a full house
of about 80 concerned citizens, they dissected the current state of political polarization and talked about how deep differences can be bridged.
“If you think the people who disagree with you are dumb or bad people, the odds are you’re wrong,” Esenberg said.
The community conversation, “Across the Divide,” was moderated by WUWM’s Mitch Teich and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s Erin Richards.
WUWM (89.7-FM) and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel sponsored the event.
Goren said the current political polarization in the United States is “not quite as bad as the Civil War, but it’s close.”
For a few decades, “there has been for a variety of reasons this kind of breaking apart politically. We are in separate areas in terms of our political discourse,” said Goren, a political scientist and co-author of the book “Mad Men and Politics: Nostalgia and the Remaking of Modern America.”
Esenberg said the dirtiest presidential campaign in American history was the 1828 race between John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson. And Esenberg added that he was “old enough to remember the political divides of the late ’60s and early ’70s.”
But the current political environment has left him flummoxed.
“It is incredibly frustrating to want to engage in intelligent discourse and to find out not that many people are interested,” he said.
The pair discussed many of the factors that have driven Americans apart, included heated political rhetoric, a disregard for facts and widespread use of social media.
“The research is indicating the first place many people look for their news is the Facebook feed or Twitter feed,” Goren said. “You curate your feed.”
Goren said people are constantly making choices about what newspapers they read, television shows they watch
“It is incredibly frustrating to want to engage in intelligent discourse and to find out not that many people are interested.”
and radio stations they listen to.
Asked about what role redistricting played in the current political environment in Wisconsin, Esenberg said the 2010 electorate that put in Gov. Scott Walker and Republican majorities was not a product of partisan redistricting.
“We have a phenomenon in this country where Democratic voters are heavily concentrated and Republicans are not,” Esenberg. “Why that’s happening I’m not entirely sure.”
Esenberg said the sorting “does have an impact on our ability to have conversations with people we disagree with because we don’t come into contact with people we disagree with.”
Esenberg and Goren also sought to come to grips with the anger that has seeped into American politics.
“My own bias is that anger has for some people become a sign of personal authenticity,” Esenberg said. “If I am angry about something and outraged, I’m defining myself as the good person who is outraged by those bad, bad things that are making me angry.”
Goren said what the country has been experiencing is “a media environment where we’re constantly bombarded by attacks . ... In the last 40 years, we’ve moved into the permanent campaign. It never stops.”
Goren said in a 24-hour cable world, “It’s always gotcha, trying to make fun of somebody or get somebody or dress down somebody. It is the gladiators and it feeds ratings.”
Esenberg recalled a time when “conversations were not supposed to descend into food fights.”
“You get the kind of politics that you want,” Esenberg said. “And if you don’t want that type of politics, it needs to start with us.”
Esenberg and Goren agreed there is one sure-fire way to bring together Wisconsinites: the Green Bay Packers.
RICK ESENBERG, FOUNDER OF THE CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC INTEREST LAW FIRM WISCONSIN INSTITUTE FOR LAW AND LIBERTY