Killer Mike’s Battle Rhymes
The activist and Run the Jewels rapper has long been one of hip-hop’s sharpest and most politically outspoken voices. His message couldn’t be more timely
One of hip-hop’s most politically outspoken voices has a timely message.
stellar new album, RTJ4, Atlanta’s own Killer Mike rhymes a verse that demands your attention:
And every day on the evening news they feed you fear for free
And you so numb you watch the cops choke out a man like me
And ’til my voice goes from a shriek to whisper, “I can’t breathe,”
And you sit there in house on couch and watch it on TV
The most you give’s a Twitter rant and call it a tragedy
Those lyrics, from “Walking in the Snow,” were recorded before George Floyd was killed, but they feel like a perfect encapsulation of the stakes of the moment — a warning to white people about how apathy to cops’ behavior and black plight will eventually be chickens coming home to roost.
Killer Mike, born Michael Santiago Render, isn’t hesitant to leap into the middle of America’s toughest conversations, whether as a surrogate for Sen. Bernie Sanders’ two presidential campaigns or as half of Run the Jewels, the politically outspoken, odd-couple duo he formed with New York producer-rapper El-P. On May 29th, Mike stepped to the podium alongside Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms to make an impassioned plea to demonstrators to preserve Atlanta and stop causing damage in the wake of Floyd’s death. “We don’t want to see Targets burning,” he said. “We want to see the system . . . burnt to the ground.” Chuck D would soon call it “the greatest rapper speech ever.”
The trepidation we are taught to feel as black men in the presence of police — even when, in
Mike’s case, your father is a cop — is but one of the many topics that he and I covered in the course of our conversation. Also on that list: the themes and spirituality that run through the work of Run the Jewels, Mike’s collaboration with Pharrell Williams on the album, and the things that give him hope in what may seem like a hopeless time. But the reality of today’s America was never far from our minds.
“I love being black,” Mike observed, as I mmmhmm’d in agreement. “With that said, it can be dangerous as fuck.”
You decided to release the new Run the Jewels album early, just as the protests were going nationwide. Do you feel like the album is right on time for this moment?
The environment for the pipe to finally burst is always there. If you listen to my music and El’s music consistently, as solo artists and together, you’re hearing similar things pop back up because they never go away. Once you see certain things, you can’t unsee them. Dick Gregory said that people on the highest level are some of the most perverse, most evil people. I don’t like being right. El-P doesn’t like being right, but it’s important we say what’s right.
This moment right here, we have an opportunity to change the American legislative process and make sure policemen are held accountable. We have an opportunity to seize a moment where money does not matter over the cost of human life. We could nail down a few things through legislation by voting, and just socially by how we interact with and treat one another. El and I’s friendship defies logic to some people. But to us, it’s as normal as two kids who just fucking like LL Cool J. Whether it’s music that encourages people that they’re not insane or gives them a joy-filled bop — I think all that’s important. But I’m happy that this time our music can be the soundtrack to progress.
In May, you appeared at the Atlanta mayor’s press conference, as folks were getting violent in the city. A lot of folks gave you praise for it, then other folks had some criticism, saying, “Hey, this guy owns property in the area and is trying to protect his property.” I wanna give you an opportunity to respond to that.
What I was saying had nothing to do with my property. Brick and mortar can be replaced. It had everything to do with not letting hopelessness set so far in that we took our anger that was being righteously raged in the middle of downtown — my thing was, let’s make sure that you enclose and fortify this city because even at its worst, it provides opportunity for black people that is found nowhere else in the world.
And this city, man, it’s worth saving. For all its imperfections, Atlanta is a rare city where you see 50 years of black mayoral leadership and 50 years of black prosperity. So all I was saying to Atlanta is, let’s support the national [movement]. Let’s support everybody who’s burning, looting, fighting, shooting to live to be free. But don’t support them by burning down the fort we have.
We have so many beautiful, brilliant organizers in the streets of Atlanta. All I want for them, after the explosion, the frightful explosion of emotion, is to have a moment where they can continue to organize. People who weren’t even talking about voting are voting this week. There’s a prosecutor’s
race in Atlanta tomorrow. Those kids are getting out and voting, and I believe in them. I was only talking to them.
I want to ask you about police reforms. What does Atlanta need to do?
Essentially, these cops have immunity. Part of the reason I supported Bernie Sanders was a policy he wanted to enact that would make punishing police easier on the federal level.
A lot of cities have a citizen’s review board. Atlanta needs to strengthen theirs. We have the power to subpoena, but we need stronger power. There needs to be a board that is diverse. Brother Kalonji [Changa], who is a fierce anti-police organizer here, should be on that board. Former police officers should be on that board, who kept it square. It is time to fully prosecute and punish rogue police officers. We need to know the cops are going to jail. We have to make sure that the police union cannot bully us.
I’m not against police. My dad was a cop when I was young. Two family members are currently policemen. I pray for ’em daily. They’re good men. I like that I live in Atlanta, where if I’m pulled up I don’t have to feel afraid that I’m gonna die, because the cop probably looks like me or knows somebody who does. But we still have a long way to go.
The hunter-prey mentality has to get out of our police force. You don’t need to be beating up college students because you want them to be home at nine o’clock. You should just simply say “Take your ass home — it’s nine o’clock.”
Or get some therapy.
But that ain’t on our dollar. Go get therapy after you’re not a cop no more. You know, go be a pro wrestler or some shit.
You mentioned your dad. How did his work inform your politics as you were growing up?
My dad is, first and foremost, a black man. You don’t divorce being black because you work for the state. My father and my cousins, my uncles love being black. My father, I respected him, and he was a hero because he was my dad. I remember just how proud I was to have a dad because he protected me.
I remember when crack hit. I remember the environment of danger. I remember when the world started turning upside down and getting darker, realizing that all cops ain’t heroes. It was no more Officer Friendly. I got radicalized by N.W.A and P.E. But at the same time, because I knew black police officers, my logic forced me to understand the balance, that the problem isn’t even white cops versus a black person. What I understood is that the power of the state can corrupt good people.
My father helped me understand this. There’s a talk that black parents have to have with black children, especially black boys, on how to survive a police encounter. My father simply told me, “Son, there is no disrespectful way to say ‘Yes, sir’ or ‘No, ma’am.’ Don’t ask too many questions. You simply say ‘Yes, sir,’ and, ‘No, ma’am,’ and if they lock you up, shut the fuck up till we come to get you.”
Two hands above the wheel.
I don’t believe in being policed by people who are not like you, don’t look like you, and don’t live in the community, because it leaves too much room open for the hunter-prey mentality. I believe that all cities should offer no-high-interest-rates loans or no-interest loans for policemen to be able to live in the cities they police. If you police Atlanta, you should live in Atlanta. I don’t want you driving out of fucking Lilburn to come into Atlanta, like you’re going on a goddamn safari.
I’m interested in the religious and the spiritual undertones of the new record. At one point, you rapped that the mission was spiritual, not political. How would you sum up your religious and spiritual views and how they impact the music?
I’ve studied the Islamic doctrine. I was introduced to Black Radical Christianity through the black church, through the Liberation church. I’ve studied the works of the black Hebrews. I studied different black sects. What I realized probably at about 19, 20 years old is that no Abrahamic religion was for me. On a historical basis, they all have used and abused us at some time — the institutions, not the actual religion. And what I found from my studies with people like John Henrik Clarke, Dr. Asa Hilliard, um, essentially that all these spiritual systems are based on African systems, spirituality.
I got more into what I was the day before any Christian, Muslim, or Hebrew stepped foot in Africa. My most honest answer is, I am a product of the great living, universal God. I view God as a woman. So I appreciate her for putting us here and view her particularly as a black woman. So that was the first human being on Earth. To me, that is the highest vessel in creation of God. So my business is to try to honor that in my ways, words, and actions, you know what I’m saying?
You got a lot of interesting guest spots on this album: DJ Premier, Mavis Staples, Zach de La Rocha. Then Pharrell, who’s not particularly known for activism. Did y’all talk about politics?
Let me tell you something, man. Me and Pharrell, we’re going back and forth about politics since he called me trying to get me to support Hillary Clinton. I was like, “Nigga, you playin’.” And I say that because that’s a homeboy conversation. Pharrell truly believes in equality for all. He truly believes in the power of women in leadership, and he truly believes that black people deserve an opportunity to have autonomy over their own lives without fear that state government will prioritize punishment for simply trying to enjoy our human rights. This brother is active behind the scenes at making sure that the entertainment class in our community knows what’s going on.
When I’m listening to Run the Jewels, there’s this sort of futuristic, almost dystopian feel. Does it reflect where we are in America? If so, do you see any signs of hope?
Our music is hope-filled. You remember They Live, with Rowdy Roddy Piper?
Oh, yeah.
You remember Escape From New York? Red Dawn? Imagine Run the Jewels as two 15-year-olds stuck in the apocalypse, trying to escape. That’s essentially what we are. I always viewed Run the Jewels as an illustrated novel, or a movie or TV show, because it gave me a chance to safely — see, if I’m Killer Mike and I’m rapping about this shit, I’m just a mad black man. It scares white people. If EL-P is just rapping as EL-P, “Oh, he’s a paranoid whiteguy conspiracy theorist,” and black people don’t get it. But together — oh, shit, this shit makes sense.
Where does Run the Jewels go from here?
We’re just getting started. There was a prerequisite when we first did it: We got to get to four classic records. Now I saw someone put that up this morning in a review, that they’ve reached their four classic records. Zeppelin, Outkast, 8Ball & MJG, UGK, EPMD, Tribe Called Quest, Beastie Boys — all had these four-album runs. Now we’ve gotten the four. Now Run the Jewels starts. You know, this record is perfect for this moment, but I want to make records for the next moment and the moment after that. I want to see parents bringing teenage kids out to say, “Yeah, this is that shit we jam together.”
Outkast, they’re the Rolling Stones of rap music. My goal has always been to be Led Zeppelin. I mean, the Led Zep in terms of the four-album run. In terms of performance, I want us to be AC/DC. I want to be onstage and in diapers, goddamn it! I want to march into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame with my best friend.