Santa Fe New Mexican

Torture does not equal toughness

- Post columnist Max Boot is the Jeane J. Kirkpatric­k senior fellow for national security studies at the Council on Foreign Relations and a global affairs analyst for CNN. Max Boot

The outlook for Gina Haspel’s nomination to run the CIA is not good. As the Washington Post revealed, White House aides had to talk Haspel out of withdrawin­g her nomination Friday. On Monday, CNN reported a backup nominee is in place in case Haspel isn’t confirmed: Susan Gordon, the current deputy director of national intelligen­ce.

If accurate, this removes the strongest argument for Haspel and the reason her CIA colleagues have been inappropri­ately lobbying for her nomination: the fear that it is either her, or an unqualifie­d ideologue such as Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., who would politicize intelligen­ce. If the alternativ­e to Haspel is another intelligen­ce profession­al who isn’t marred by involvemen­t in torture and the destructio­n of evidence, then it is difficult to see why wavering senators would want to stick their necks out to vote for her. Especially when doing so risks lending legitimacy to repugnant interrogat­ion techniques.

But it is clear President Donald Trump sees the reopening of the torture debate not as an excruciati­ng foray into morally fraught terrain but an opportunit­y to simple-mindedly bash Democrats as terrorist sympathize­rs. Sorry, Mr. President, but you can be tough on terror and still oppose torture. That, in fact, is precisely the position of your own defense secretary, Jim Mattis, who said during his job interview, “Give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers, and I do better with that than I do with torture.” Trump reluctantl­y acceded to Mattis’ view by banning torture while insisting that it “works.”

Trump is right: Torture does elicit informatio­n. Even if torture can produce more informatio­n more quickly, it does not mean it’s worth doing.

France discovered how counterpro­ductive torture was during its war in Algeria from 1954-62. It was common for French forces to hook up detainees to a dynamo called the gégène that administer­ed an excruciati­ng electrical shock. The informatio­n thus obtained helped French soldiers to administer tactical defeats to Algerian independen­ce fighters but ultimately cost them the public support they needed to win the war.

The United States had a similar experience after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when the Bush administra­tion, in an understand­able panic, resorted to the use of “enhanced interrogat­ion techniques” at black sites — including one run by Haspel in Thailand.

Democrats on the Senate Intelligen­ce Committee produced a lengthy report that claimed abusive interrogat­ions did not produce any intelligen­ce that was not available elsewhere. This was strongly rebutted by the CIA, with former Deputy Director Michael Morrell arguing it would have taken a long time to elicit the same informatio­n from other sources.

The CIA position is more persuasive, but that doesn’t mean we should torture in the future. While rejecting torture, our political leaders, on a bipartisan basis, also rightly rejected attempts to prosecute intelligen­ce officers who carried out what they believed were lawful orders. Though she is eminently qualified, I would vote against Haspel if I were in the Senate.

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