South Florida Sun-Sentinel (Sunday)
Scorsese, Lebowitz’s friendship a productive one
Martin Scorsese and Fran Lebowitz are trying to remember how they met. Scorsese ventures that it was at a literary party on New York City’s Upper East Side with “Goodfellas” screenwriter Nick Pileggi, but Lebowitz shoots this idea down: “That wouldn’t have been me.” Could it have been John Waters’
50th birthday party? She doesn’t think so: “That was only, like, 25 years ago.”
“We both believe it was at a party,” says Lebowitz, the author and professional speaker, in a video conference with the Oscar-winning director. “Because where else would it have been?”
Few living people are more identified with New York than Lebowitz, who made her name as an Interview magazine columnist in the 1970s and has since morphed into a kind of professional Manhattanite, and Scorsese, who was raised on the Lower East Side before making films such as “Taxi Driver” that have powerfully shaped perceptions of the city in the popular imagination.
Their friendship may have murky origins, but it has been productive: In
2010, Scorsese directed “Public Speaking,” an HBO documentary highlighting Lebowitz’s wry commentary on urban culture. Now they have teamed up again for the Netflix series “Pretend It’s a City,” now available. Each episode, loosely organized around a theme — money, transportation, health, books — features Lebowitz riffing sardonically on subjects from Leonardo DiCaprio’s e-cigarettes to the #MeToo movement. Filmed before the pandemic hit New York City, it includes much grumbling about former Mayor Mike Bloomberg and the sanitization of places like Times Square, but it’s also a poignant snapshot of the city,
however flawed, before its latest crisis.
Scorsese, who directed the seven episodes, is a generous audience to Lebowitz, laughing enthusiastically at her quips in conversations filmed at the Players Club.
Before making “Pretend It’s a City,” Lebowitz and Scorsese agreed on two things: They wouldn’t film in the summer (too hot), and they’d minimize travel out of Manhattan (too much traffic). For scenes at the panorama of New York City at the Queens Museum — a miniature replica of the city’s skyline — they made a rare exception.
This interview with them has been edited for clarity and length.
Q: How did you decide to make another documentary after “Public Speaking”?
Scorsese: I loved the movie, and I loved making the movie. Every time I
was editing the film, I still had the same reaction each time, to every story, every line. All the inflections, the tone, the dialogue, the music. I became very entranced by the form of it. I said, “Well, why don’t we do this again? It’d be great to have a running commentary every week, so to speak.” We tried a couple of things. Fran, you came up with the idea, ultimately, of the title and what it means.
Lebowitz: “Pretend It’s a City” came about because this — as you surely noticed — was all shot before COVID. The title was something I had been yelling at people in the street for, like, 15 years. And when I say people, I mean tourists. People who stand in the middle of the sidewalk, chatting or taking pictures of each other, and impeding the flow of traffic. I was prone to yelling at people, “Move! Pretend it’s a city, not your living room.” So now, of course, because
of the virus, people think: “Oh, that’s such a poetic title (in a wistful tone) ‘Pretend It’s a City.’ ” But it doesn’t mean that. It means (aggressively): “Move! Pretend It’s a City!”
Q: You have both lived through numerous difficult periods in the history of the city. How do you think the pandemic has changed it?
Lebowitz: Of course, it’s completely changed. But “change” is probably not the right way to put it, because change implies “and now it’s this.” It’s in flux. It’s not gonna stay the way it is now, because the way it is now is different than it was last week and certainly different than it was the beginning of shutdown. If I could see the future, I wouldn’t buy the wrong lottery tickets every week. The one thing I know for sure, this idea New York is over, is just —
Scorsese: Out of the question.
Q: How have your daily work routines been disrupted?
Lebowitz: You have to be a lot more hardworking and organized than I am to have your daily patterns disrupted. What was disrupted were my nightly patterns. …
I realized at the very beginning that I was waiting for it to end, you know? By the ninth day, “Is this over yet? No? Come on. End this, it’s too long.” At a certain point, I just accepted it. I tell myself, “Fran, you’re not in a refugee camp.” That’s true. I’m not. But it still means that I can’t go to a restaurant and that most of the things that make up my life in New York are gone. But they’re not forgotten. And they’re not gone for good. …
There are even some tourists in New York now, of course not anywhere near what there used to be. The people in charge of the city would say, “Great. They came here to spend money.” I think they came to annoy Fran. And possibly sneeze on Fran.
Scorsese: I actually was supposed to have shot (“Killers of the Flower Moon”), finished it and be editing right now. Friday, March 13 was the last day I had a screening in my office. My assistant told me, “We’re locking down.” I expected nine days, 10 days. And I was told, “It’ll be a couple of weeks, maybe a month.” …
We’re still working on the film. I did costumes last night. We’re working on casting, all done by Zoom and FaceTime. …
The isolation for the work has been very good. Lonely. A little maddening at times. I have a room here, it’s soundproof, but I’ve been sort of locked in it for months. It’s like in the film I made, “The Aviator,” where Howard Hughes lives in the screening room.
Q: How do you manage being friends while also being a subject and a documentarian?
Scorsese: It’s not a subject. It’s a conversation.
Lebowitz: There isn’t that much difference. Of course, I don’t have to be, like, miked if I have dinner with Marty. But I would not describe this as work. Sometimes it’s a little bit arduous or annoying, but I wouldn’t call it being, for instance, like a coal miner. That’s work.
Scorsese: That’s interesting. I used to say, “I never worked a day in my life.”
Lebowitz: For many years, I have made a living by doing speaking engagements. And I will always say to my agent, “They understand that they pay me to get there, right?” I love being on the stage. I love talking to people. The flying there and the hotel and the car that doesn’t come. That is what they pay me for.