Trump is no stranger to testifying
Mueller team likely to be tougher than other lawyers
WASHINGTON — If President Donald Trump is interviewed by special counsel Robert Mueller, a step that may be unavoidable in the Russia investigation, he’ll square off with prosecutors who have spent decades firing questions at corrupt politicians, crooked businessmen and organized crime leaders.
But the prosecutors wouldn’t be the only seasoned veterans in the room.
By his own account, Trump has sat for dozens of depositions in his career as a business mogul in New York, one who routinely drew legal challenges from aggrieved competitors, contractors, customers and state attorneys general.
Lawyers who have grilled him in the past describe him as charming and focused, but also arrogant, glib and dishonest, characteristics that could prove troublesome if Mueller’s team finds he has a clear conflict with the truth.
The president has given mixed signals over whether he would agree to meet prosecutors investigating whether his campaign assisted Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. election, allegations Trump has repeatedly denounced as a hoax.
In June, Trump said he would be “100 percent” willing to testify under oath. He appeared to waffle last week, however, saying “we’ll see.”
Legal experts say Trump almost certainly will have to submit to some form of questioning before Mueller wraps up the probe. The president is likely to give as good as he gets.
“He’s going to have his A game on,” said Jay Itkowitz, a lawyer who represented ALM Unlimited, a licensing company that accused Trump of stiffing it on revenue from his clothing line in 2008.
Trump behaved like “a gentleman” when Itkowitz deposed him in a Trump Tower conference room in 2011, the lawyer said.
But he felt Trump provided false information.
“He’s obviously capable of being very charming and have an outward demeanor of respectfulness even while he’s totally lying,” Itkowitz said.
A judge later ruled in Trump’s favor by dismissing ALM’s lawsuit.
A Miami lawyer, Elizabeth Beck, said she got less respect when she deposed Trump in a separate lawsuit in 2011 involving a failed real estate deal in Florida.
Trump called her questions “very stupid,” according to a transcript. In an interview, Beck said he “got red in the face” and “ran out of the room screaming” when she needed to take a break to pump breast milk for her newborn.
He was more polite when they resumed the deposition three months later. He was “a completely different person,” Beck said.
He also turned on the charm when the case went to trial in Broward County, Fla., in 2014. While reading a document on the witness stand, Trump asked the judge to borrow his glasses.
“Can I use your glasses again, your honor? Is that possible? I hate to do this to you,” Trump said.
When he finished testifying, the judge dismissed Trump by saying, “You’re fired,” the trademark line from Trump’s reality TV show “The Apprentice.” The jury ruled in Trump’s favor.
“People underestimate him,” Beck said. “I saw grown men, attorneys, become gelatinous in front of him.”
It’s unlikely that Mueller, a former Marine Corps officer who fought in Vietnam, will turn weak in the knees. In 2004, Mueller famously threatened to resign as FBI director if President George W. Bush reauthorized a warrantless wiretap program without changes. Bush backed down.
Mueller is also far more powerful than lawyers in civil cases.
In addition to collecting a vast number of documents, the special counsel’s office has secured cooperation from George Papadopoulos, a former campaign aide, and Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser. Both pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about contacts with Russians or suspected Russian intermediaries during the campaign or the presidential transition.
Trump is famously loose with the facts, sometimes shading the truth or fabricating his own. Doing that in an interview with federal investigators is a potential felony, even if the president is not under oath.
It’s unclear how much Trump would prepare for an interview to get his story straight.
Brigida Benitez, who represented celebrity chef Jose Andres in a dispute with Trump’s hotel in Washington, said he displayed “confidence” and “probably some measure of arrogance” when she deposed him at Trump Tower during the presidential transition. But she didn’t sense he had prepared for the encounter.
“My impression is that he walks into those situations with little preparation, feeling like he can just wing it,” Benitez said.
Both sides ultimately settled the lawsuit without disclosing the terms.
Trump’s lawyers have said they are cooperating with Mueller, but wouldn’t comment on reports about a potential interview. If the president refuses to talk, Mueller could subpoena him to appear before a grand jury that is hearing evidence in the probe.
Trump’s lawyers “could go to court and say you can’t subpoena a sitting president,” said Randall Eliason, a former federal prosecutor who teaches white collar criminal law at George Washington University. “Most people would say that wouldn’t prevail. But they could make an argument and tie it up for months.”
In any case, granting an interview may be the only way for Trump to resolve an investigation that he considers a stain on his administration.