Spike Lee: Trump is on wrong side of history
It’s always enlightening to talk to Spike Lee, but this was a particularly interesting time for it.
Lee, promoting his terrific new film “BlacKkKlansman,” called to talk about the movie the morning after President Donald Trump had tweeted about LeBron James and CNN host Don Lemon, disparaging their intelligence. Whether it was that, the high praise his film — about a black police officer in the late 1970s who infiltrates the Ku Klux Klan — or just the general state of things, Lee was ready to talk. And talk he did, about just about everything, though even he has limits.
“Don’t let me start on the NRA,” he said, laughing.
He also wanted to know — again, laughing — how “BlacKkKlansman” would play in Arizona. That’s where the conversation began, before taking off in all sorts of directions.
Trump’s tweet on Lemon, LeBron
Question: Your film takes place in the 1970s. These days you hear a lot about dog whistles, coded racist messages.
Answer: Here’s the thing, it’s not a dog whistle. A dog whistle, you’re trying to do on the sly, coy, on the low-low. This is like, blatant. I don’t think the guy (Trump) is trying to hide anything — calling Mexicans rapists, and we go on down the line. It’s blatant.
Q: When Trump insults black people, it tends to involve intelligence, like the tweet about Lemon and LeBron.
A: First of all, I think that (tweet) was a cheap shot at Don Lemon. (Trump’s)
whole thing with NFL players, or (former NFL quarterback Colin) Kaepernick, is a joke . ... When it’s all said and done, this guy is going to be written by historians on the wrong side of history. That’s just the way it’s going to be — the wrong side of history. And that’s why I chose to include the Charlottesville coda, because you had this horrific event that went global, which was a demonstration of American-grown, apple-pie, redwhite-and blue terrorism. And this guy, Agent Orange (Trump), had a chance to refute that, to tell the world that we are better than this, and he had a chance to denounce the Klan, to denounce David Duke, to denounce alt-right, to denounce neo-Nazis, and he chose not to do so.
Why Lee used Charlottesville footage
Q: The real-life Charlottesville footage at the end was incredibly powerful after the rest of the movie. I actually cried a little at the use of the phrase “rest in power” for Heather Heyer (who was killed in the violence in Charlottesville when struck by a car).
A: Rest in power, that has really been prevalent for black people who have been shot down by police.
Q: Exactly, and you applying that to her in this context was really moving.
A: I’ver never talked about this before. I didn’t want to use the footage of that car going down the street unless I had the blessing of Susan Bro. That’s Heather’s mother. And she told me OK, but she also said, “Spike, I feel kind of funny, because some black folks are saying, ‘Why are you making such a big fuss about this white girl when black people are being killed all the time?’ “And I tried to carefully take my time and explain to her that whoever said that, whether black or white, they’re ignorant. Your daughter died for a just cause. And I, Spike Lee, had no concerns . ... She was a martyr.
So it’s not about black or white. Historically, you go to John Brown, you go to the civil-rights movement, where several white people were dying, too, in the South. It’s about truth and justice and what’s right or wrong. For me, Heather Heyer, that touched me. I mean, she was there to denounce hate, hatred. In that scene we show young white kids at (the University of Virginia) chanting, “Black lives matter.” They weren’t black people doing that. They were white college students at UVA. So this whole thing for me is about good and bad, evil, and these guys, they’re on the wrong side. I really wanted to explain to Heather that all black people don’t feel that way, that your daughter died for a just cause, and the horrific demonstration of homegrown, apple-pie, cherry-pie, red-white-and-blue terrorism.
Q: “BlacKkKlansman” takes place in the ‘70s, but it’s relevant today.
A: That was the intention of Kevin Willmott, my cowriter, and myself. We felt like this film could not be as powerful as could be if it was strictly a period piece. Now, of course, we had to be true to the story, the subject matter. We couldn’t make this take place today. But there were elements of what happened in the late ‘70s we could apply and the audience can make the connection itself. And, with the coda of Charlottesville, everybody would understand the very, very sticky situation we live in today.
How people are rediscovering his films
Q: When you’re putting a film together in the editing room, do you ever think, “Wow, I really nailed it this time?”
A: To tell you the truth, you never know. And I’m being honest. You do the best you can. And then the film comes out, and sometimes people get it, and sometimes people don’t. I’ve been very fortunate that some of my films did not click upon their release; people are rediscovering and liking them. That’s the great thing about Netflix (laughs).
Q: In previous conversations, you’ve mentioned “Bamboozled” as one of the films that worked that way.
A: Oh yeah, people love that film now. Wasn’t the case when it came out (laughs). Here’s the thing, though. That’s not just a filmmaker. If you’re a rapper or a novelist or whatever it is, a whole lot of things have to happen for something to click. Timing, bad weather can kill an opening — a whole lot of things have to go right for something to work. That’s just the way it is. So you just do the best you can and hope for the best. That’s what I’ve come to learn going into my fourth decade (of filmmaking). If something doesn’t click on the initial release, you go, well, “God willing, they’ll get it down the line.” That’s all you can do, and you move on to the next project.
The buzz on ‘BlacKkKlansman’
Q: The odds seem pretty good with this one. A: I’m not tempting the cinema gods on this one. I’m not saying nothin’. I’m not walking under ladders, I’m not splitting a pole. I’m not going to do anything that’s going to anger the cinema gods.
Q: Well, it’s been shown at festivals and the buzz is good.
A: As I said before, I’m not temping the cinema gods (laughs). Hey, I want people to come out, but there’s no guarantee. I’ll say this, though. Focus Features (the studio distributing the film), they’re spending money. That’s always good, because what it tells you is they believe in the film and they’re going for it.
How to answer Trump’s tweets
Q: Back to Trump for a minute — how should people react to that tweet, and others like it?
A: We’ve got to stop reacting to that. That’s the old okey-doke, the end-around, the misdirection football play. It’s a distraction. (Special counsel Robert) Mueller’s on his ass, this and that, the Russians, so he says this stuff to make us look at something that’s not there. The ol’ hocus-pocus. We’ve just got to keep our eyes on the prize and not be distracted by these diversionary tactics. We’ve got to be smart. This is not new. This is a pattern. This is routine. When we go off every time he tweets something, we’re doing his bidding, I feel.
Here’s the thing, though. I know it is hard not to respond to these ignorant tweets. I know it’s hard. But if we’re going to move forward somehow we’re going to have to have the restraint to brush it off and keep focused and not go for the okey-doke. These are acts of subterfuge, skullduggery and shenanigans, the three S’s (laughs).