Coach examines freedom, family, and title quest
LOS ANGELES — Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla sat down with the Globe at the team hotel here for a wide-ranging conversation about his growth, his concerns, and his family. Responses have been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.
How did you reflect after last season ended, with a Game 7 conference finals loss to the Heat?
Joe Mazzulla: My assessment was to take a look back and figure out what went well. I was really able to understand the expectation of what it means to coach the Celtics. I know and love the fact that the expectation is a championship or nothing. But when I was able to take a look back on what we achieved, it freed me, because I realized most coaches in the NBA would take that year 10 times out of 10, and it wasn’t good enough. To me, that freed me to be, like, ‘It’s never going to be good enough unless you win, but it’s about how hard you go at something and how much you try to achieve greatness.’
I found so much freedom and surrender in the fact that we failed, but had so much success in other ways. So this year I just went into it with the perspective of, I just surrender to the result and the process, because at the end of the day it’s never going to be good enough, and I actually love that.
How is that freedom empowering you now?
JM: It’s helping me be myself. It’s helping me make better decisions. It’s helping me cope with losses. It’s helping me navigate a season. It’s funny, after the Golden State loss [Tuesday], everyone was crushed and I was like, ‘Man, when the playoffs start, no one’s even going to remember this.’
“I found so much freedom and surrender in the fact that we failed, but had so much success in other ways [last year].” JOE MAZZULLA
I started going through the failures last year. We lost four of five, lost three in a row, got blown out by OKC. We had all these small failures, and the result doesn’t matter. It’s can we take what we learned and apply it through the season? I think the internal surrender allows me to be much more free, make better decisions, and coach with the end in mind.
Your approach has seemed more focused on the bigger picture. How’d you land in that space?
JM: I feel the trust from the players just naturally. Everyone always says, ‘Be yourself.’ But you can’t be great and can’t be yourself if players don’t let you. And the players allow me to be myself. They trust me, and that helps.
The second piece is last year I wanted to win every game. This year, I want to win every game, but I also want to win the lesson of what we’re going to need, because you need adversity. Talking to Jrue [Holiday] about his championship year in Milwaukee, it wasn’t always good times during the season. But they relied on those hard times when the playoffs started. So it’s embracing those hard times and understanding when they come.
You’ve mentioned developing your coaching philosophy this year. How did it form?
JM: It’s more working with the guys on the culture. What temperature do we want to set? What do we want to be known for? How are we going to handle success and failure? What does late-game philosophy look like? Why don’t we call timeouts? Why do we call timeouts in certain situations?
It’s having conversations with the players about, ‘This is what I want us to look like. This is what I believe in. What do we believe in together, and how do we make it ours?’
You’ve seemed to make a point of boosting up Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown in news conferences after relatively quiet statistical games. What is behind that?
JM: It’s a little bit of changing the narrative of what value is and what success looks like. For such a long time in the NBA, value is how many shots did you get and how many points did you score? Very few times do you have guys like Jaylen and Jayson welcome two other superstars [in Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis] and then empower Derrick [White], who should be an All-Star. So what I really want to do is change the lens of what value and success look like.
I think they’re way more valuable than they get credit for, because of their ability to be great teammates. And that’s not talked about or clicked on enough. The fact that one of those two guys could take 8-10 shots and keep playing hard on defense, to me that’s just as valuable as giving them the ball every time and scoring 40.
Last season your interactions with the media were sometimes tense. You’re a coach at the core, and if there was an option to stop speaking to us, I bet you’d take it. But you’ve seemed more at ease this year. What shifted?
JM: I think it came down to allowing myself to be emotionally vulnerable to the public. That was the hardest adjustment. It’s funny, I spent the first 17 years of my life being insecure and caring what people thought. Then post-college you spend time reidentifying yourself, being secure, and not being in the public eye, to the point where it’s like, ‘This is who I am. This is Joe Mazzulla. I don’t care what anybody says.’
Then overnight you go to being in the limelight, having to care what people think about you, having to understand how people view you. And that’s really hard, because I spent so much time working on not worrying about that. Last year I wasn’t ready to be emotionally vulnerable and my true self in the public eye.
And I never want to be a distraction to the players and organization. So I’m learning how to be emotionally open. I’m going to argue with you from time to time. It doesn’t mean I don’t like you or agree with what you’re saying. And, jokingly, I can’t understand why people give two [expletive] about me. I just don’t understand that. But they don’t care about me; they care about the role of the head coach of the Boston Celtics. So once I realized that I was like, ‘OK.’
So if tomorrow you decided to give it all up and go work on a farm somewhere . . .
JM: You would never talk to me again.
I would, Joe.
JM: I think it was just separating who I am as a person with who I am as coach of the Celtics. [The public] wants the coach of the Celtics. So I have to take on that responsibility.
Obviously things are good right now, but what’s something about this season that concerns you?
JM: I don’t have any concerns.
None?
JM: Zero.
Is that just how you approach coaching? Or did you have concerns last year and this is different?
JM: I had concerns last year. Honestly, the concern was, ‘What if we don’t win this game today? What if we lose three of four?’ I had those concerns, understanding how you’re going to navigate that. But because of what we talked about earlier, the surrender to the result, I don’t have any concerns.
Whatever we go through, we have to go through, however long that takes. I would regret more not being tested and going into a playoffs with zero adversity than being battletested and having an understanding of what we look like when things don’t go our way.
You’re obviously building toward the playoffs. What needs to shift when they begin?
JM: To me the playoffs are no different from a basketball standpoint. What is more is the intensity, the stress, the anxiety, all those little details.
To me, it’s can we simulate that stress, intensity, and anxiety during the regular season? What do you turn to off the court to help you with your focus?
JM: Martial arts, books, conversations with the guys, getting perspective from different players and staff. The biggest thing I’ve learned — and am much more comfortable with — is I don’t look back when a decision is made. In the past I may have not gone to an adjustment because I didn’t want it to not work, but you have to get used to making decisions and get used to them not working.
And that’s OK, because the more decisions you make, the more information you get. If we decide to blitz a pick-and-roll and they hit a 3, I’m not going to be as [upset] as I was before, because that’s part of the process.
How do you get to that space?
JM: Go through a year like last year. Can you treat things as the most important knowing at the end of the day it doesn’t matter? It’s the concept of duality that I spend a lot of time on.
What’s your relationship like with president of basketball operations Brad Stevens? It’s still an unusual situation, a guy who coached a lot of these players . . .
JM: And I worked for him as an assistant. That, too.
JM: It actually makes it easier, the freeflowing conversation. When I came into the league as an assistant I was developing a coaching identity, so I was grateful that I got to work for Brad and Ime [Udoka]. And I’ve been able to slowly develop my identity. Brad and I are able to have honest conversations. So we talk daily, and whether about the G
League, what’s going on culturally, or on the court, we’re always talking.
Your wife Camai and your two sons are waiting for you after most news conferences. What has their support meant?
JM: Under the circumstances of last year, a lot of families could break apart and go the other way. I felt like the biggest gift last year brought was our marriage got stronger and our family got closer, because we were navigating something new together and nobody else could understand what we were learning and going through.
So to go through a year like we did and come out with a stronger marriage and stronger family, I think is the best gift you could have.
Thanks for taking the time . . .
JM: The last point I really want to hit on is you don’t get to dictate the terms of your goal, and I think we’re learning that as a team. We all say we want a championship, but you have to be careful what that comes with. Sometimes when you have a goal and aren’t careful with what that comes with, you’re like, ‘Oh, do I really want this?’
My whole life I prayed and wanted to be the head coach of the Celtics, but I got it under different circumstances than I thought I was going to. But you don’t get to pick and choose the timing of your goal. You just get to choose how you respond to it. And we’re learning that if we want to win, we’ll do whatever it takes and we can’t worry about the circumstances. We have to worry about how we respond.
What circumstances would the players have to be aware of?
JM: Tonight, we need you to rebound. Tonight, you’re getting 10 shots. Tonight, because of the matchup, you might not start this playoff series. We’ve all got to be willing to do what it takes if we say we want to do this. And I think they really do, and I think they’re really learning that.