Toni Duggan: ‘I believe we should be better paid, but not the same as the men’
On the eve of the World Cup, Toni Duggan is keen to talk about equality. “I don’t want to just start with money – we need pitches, facilities,” the England forward says. “We played at the Wanda [Metropolitano], which was amazing, but then the next week they’re creating a penalty spot 10 minutes before the games start. Equality for me is having a pitch to play on and hot showers in the changing rooms, before we talk about the money we get.”
With the USA women’s national team’s lawsuit, filed in March, against US Soccer alleging “institutionalised gender discrimination” ongoing and calls from Professional Footballers Australia to close the $370m (£292m) gap in the World Cup prize fund, equality is a hot topic.
“I have a strong opinion on it,” Duggan says of the battle in the US, “and I believe they should be doing it because they’re more successful than their men’s team.” But her views on the disparity in England are very different. “Should we be doing it? No. Because we don’t bring in the money that the men do – we’re not as successful as them yet. They bring in a lot more money than us commercially and are more successful. When people ask me: ‘Should I earn the same money as the men?’ No, I don’t believe I should because they’re on a bigger scale than me, they have more fans, are more popular. I believe the girls should be better paid but not the same as the men.”
The 27-year-old has just finished her second season with Barcelona which culminated in a 4-1 defeat by Lyon in the Spanish side’s first Champions League final. The game at the Wanda Metropolitano she refers to, a 2-0 win against Atlético Madrid in March, attracted a league-record crowd of 60,739. For Duggan, who scored in that victory, it was the quality of the attendance, not the quantity, that was key.
“There’s a picture of me celebrating and behind me there’s actually a man putting one finger up,” she recalls. “I’m not promoting that or saying it’s a good thing but it kind of showed what it meant. You could feel the passion in the stadium that day. It was a real atmosphere, it was a massive game and it was only a league game.
“In England, I think we get about 30,000 for maybe an FA Cup final and there are lots of kids on the seats, which is nice don’t get me wrong, but it’s a calm atmosphere.”
In contrast the game at the Metropolitano felt like a “proper game”. “The fans really wanted to be there for their team – the Atlético supporters were giving us stick, they were booing us, there were flares. I’m not encouraging all of it – there are some things in the men’s game we don’t want – but I’m just saying it felt like a proper atmosphere.
“Sometimes we can give away free tickets and get 20,000 but 10,000 are free. But at the Wanda those people had bought those tickets, they were diehard Atlético Madrid fans and were there to see their team win and that’s the difference between England and Spain for me. Sometimes [in Spain] you can go to stadiums and there are 2,000 people there but it feels like it’s 10,000.”
Duggan adds by way of explanation: “In Spain there’s a lot more publicity … when we’re successful we’re front page of the newspaper – every newspaper and the big ones, Marca and others – but then also when we lose we’re slated. That’s the level the game is at. It’s the same as the men’s – that’s how we’re treated there.”
She says she is not calling for constant criticism from the media but that there is an appeal to being held to the same standards as the men. “In the past we might have lost a game and you get fans messaging you saying: ‘Ah, don’t worry, you’ve done so well,’ and it can be a bit patronising, do you know what I mean? We’ve actually played badly and people are saying: ‘Ah, we’re so proud.’ Is it just because we’re the women’s team? Is it just because we’re girls? If that was the men you wouldn’t be saying that.”