Víctor Orta: ‘People said I was crazy to bring Bielsa to the Championship’
Víctor Orta has an idea. The former director of football at Leeds and Middlesbrough, who returned this summer to Sevilla after eight years in England, has heard the debate so many times, listened to the arguments that often, that he couldn’t help his mind wandering.
Now, he reckons, he might have come up with a way of settling it, until next season at least. To have a lot of fun trying, at least. He has barely sat down when he throws it out there, a hint of mischief. “What’s better? La Liga or the Premier League?” he says. “How about something like a Ryder Cup of football to find out?
“In the summer, play the champions of the Premier League against the champions of La Liga, second in Premier League against second in La Liga, third against third … promoted teams against promoted teams. Maybe go to the US, play there. Three points for a win, two for a win on penalties, one for a loss.” There’s a smile. “A proposal,” he says. Or you could play Arsenal against Sevilla, home and away. The score so far: Premier League 2-1 La Liga from the Sánchez-Pizjuán two weeks ago. Next up, the Emirates Stadium on Wednesday night.
If there’s a playfulness there, Orta also offers a serious analysis on the eve of his first trip back to an English ground, a discussion of the lessons learned and taken across borders. Spain is aware of the Premier League’s power, the risk of it becoming a de facto super league. Yet if Arsenal’s superiority seemed eloquent, European competition has actually offered an alternative interpretation: since 2000, thanks not least to the seven-times Europa League winners, there have been 36 European trophy winners from Spain,16 from England. The last 58 knockout or one-off meetings saw Spanish teams prevail 39 times. “The Premier League started to divide the money more fairly much sooner. It is better now [but] in the first four TV deals La Liga was really unfair – Sevilla were the first to point that out. La Liga is increasing revenues, reducing the gap, creating break-even budgets to help sustainability. In England, they have had 30 years of fairer distribution, which has made for stronger clubs.
“But England has not shown sufficient consideration for their own financial fair play rules. You can’t register a loss of over £105m a year, that’s the rule. But an owner comes who can lose £40m, £50m, £60m, £70m, £80m per season, and that’s not fair. And perhaps my future would have been different if Everton’s [proposed] points deduction was [applied] last season [when Leeds finished five points behind and were relegated]. The Premier League has to be really serious on its rules.
“Money is a key element but footballers still want to play in La Liga. I was surprised by that,” Orta admits. “Dodi Lukebakio had a really good offer from the Premier League but waited until the last week of the market to allow us to comply with [Spanish FFP] rules and sign him. Others didn’t wait and moved to the Premier League, it’s true, but Sevilla can still sign talent because it’s a mix of money, project, quality of life; European competition, too.”
That now is Orta’s task, having returned to replace his former boss, Monchi, who moved in the other direction to Aston Villa. “My first feeling was that I had arrived at the Chicago Bulls to take over from Michael Jordan,” he says. “No one remembers Brent Barry. He was there for one year and it did not work well. I hope I don’t have the same season he did.
“Monchi was my mentor. I learned from him, we built a lot together. He is special, a big influence, but I have my own ideas and experiences with English and Spanish football. We exchange a lot of ideas. He asked about loyalty bonuses, for example – common in England, not in Spain. We talk about how styles are different, academy structures. I’m sure he enjoys seeing Sevilla win and I’m happy for Aston Villa. They were opponents before but I have
friends there – Monchi, Unai [Emery], Damian [Vidagany] – and you always want your friends to do well.
“One of the clear evolutions is physical. It’s curious because you see the influence of Spanish coaches and styles in England but they adapt and the trend is towards a more ‘English’ approach in terms of physicality. Back in Spain now, I see that clearly. Jude Bellingham is having a huge impact. Why? Because he has the talent and athleticism. That’s what I’m thinking since I returned: that recruitment obviously has to be focused on good players but with good physicality, too. Sevilla’s growth is incredible. When I left there were 125 staff, now it’s over 400. I see more facilities, modernity.”
In a cabinet behind him sit their seven Europa League titles trophies, the basis of an identity built. And yet, Orta admits: “One of my fears was that we had reached our ceiling – all these cups. I was really scared. I said: ‘Pfff, maybe the Europa League is our limit.’ But after a few months here I think we can break that glass ceiling.”
Maybe not this year – Sevilla are likely to fall at the Champions League group stage again, dropping back into the competition they have made their own – but soon, he hopes. Increasing Champions League qualifiers to five from La Liga helps. And then? “We’ve not been beyond the quarter-finals, but why not a semi-final? The example is Inter: finalists last year with more or less the same team Sevilla beat in the Europa League final three years ago. Unrealistic ambition is not good, but if you are conservative it is not good. I’m now certain we can reach the next level.”
It would help if they could hold on to a manager a little longer, Orta concedes. The third of three coaches last season, José Luis Mendilibar arrived in a crisis, rescued them from relegation, then took them to and won another Europa League final. But, with Sevilla virtually obliged to keep him on, a temporary appointment made permanent, just nine games into this season he was gone again.
An unexpected, very personal and seemingly left-field choice, the Uruguayan Diego Alonso took charge in October – the defeat by Arsenal was just his second game, having begun with a draw against Real Madrid. “The first page of the director of football manual is: when things are not going well, sack the coach,” Orta says. “Is it fair? No. No, it’s not fair. Are they the only guilty parties? No. It’s players, the board, directors, head coach, staff. But’s it’s the only way to try to change. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But I’m sure that if this club is to grow it needs stability with the coach. I hope – for my own future, too – that Diego is the answer, that he can be here three or four seasons and create a legacy, the stability this club needs. If not, then it is really difficult.
“I met him in November 2011 at a barbecue in Montevideo when he was playing at Peñarol. I was so impressed: he spoke like a coach already. I was like: wow. It was fascinating. It was like a tick: hey, I’m going to follow this person. In Paraguay and Mexico, he did well. Not so good in MLS with Miami, maybe. But if he has the current Miami team, he wins the league. It’s funny: people put the word ‘failure’ on him because of Uruguay at the World Cup; I put the word ‘success’ there. He qualified when they were almost [out].
“I did the same with [Marcelo] Bielsa [at Leeds]. People said I was crazy to bring Bielsa to the Championship. But my crazy idea got results. Hopefully this crazy idea will, too.”
So, about Bielsa. “For me it’s really great working with him,” Orta insists. “He raises your level. That doesn’t scare me. That’s how you grow. Maybe if you have Bielsa as your editor you would want to change newspaper but he’s someone who makes you find and push your limits: you, the players, the groundsman, the chief executive, the cook. It’s a big challenge and some people might give up on it but I prefer that.”
The stress, though, is unavoidable, even if the enthusiasm with which Orta talks is infectious. Can you actually enjoy it still? He laughs. “That’s a very good question. It’s difficult, to be honest. I have been in football for 19 seasons. I look young, I know, but I was 25 when I started as director of football at Valladolid. It’s true that there are match days when you wake up and stupid thoughts cross your mind. Is [Youssef] En-Nesyri in the mood to score today? Will Lukebakio have his mind on his wife who is about to give birth? You leave your future in someone else’s hands.
“My friend Emilio said: you’re home, try to enjoy the journey. Enjoy the November sunshine, the food, taking your son to school, the football. But we’re really stupid in football. We divide the good things and multiply the bad. In football and in life, I guess. We don’t let ourselves enjoy it. You win and think: ‘Yeah, but next it’s Madrid’. You have to try to live the moment. We’re so privileged to be working in football, travelling the world watching games. We can’t always be sad, upset or depressed. So my motto this year is: enjoy the journey.”
Orta pauses and laughs. “But it’s true that some days that’s harder than others.”