Podcast ‘aids, abets’ discussion of true crime, legal principles
SAN JOSE >> After nearly a decade defending people accused of murder, theft and drug charges, attorneys Avi Singh and Sajid Khan are on a mission: They want to raise public awareness about core constitutional principles like the presumption of innocence, show that people are more than their police reports, and expose the flaws of mass incarceration.
Their tactic? Join the growing number of lawyers around the country hosting legal podcasts on such juicy topics as whether President Trump can pardon himself and the significance of the crime lab scandal in Massachusetts that earlier this year forced prosecutors to dismiss 21,000 low-level drug cases.
The two public defenders in January launched “Aider & Abettor,’’ their hour-long podcast available on iTunes and SoundCloud. So far, they have explored everything from the best music to listen to during trial (Tupac Shukar and Chance the Rapper) to the rehabilitation story of a former three-strikes lifer now working as a logistics supervisor for a large Silicon Valley corporation.
“We believe we’re aiding and abetting, or promoting and advancing, the cause and humanity of our clients,” Khan, 34, said.
So far, Singh and Khan are mere minnows in a marketplace that has boomed since 2014 when the first season of “Serial,’’ the breakaway podcast about an old murder, became a global sensation with more than 100 million downloads. As a result of that podcast, a judge last year granted a new trial for the young Baltimore man who claimed he was innocent of his girlfriend’s murder.
In contrast, Singh and Khan’s “Aider & Abettor’’ has been downloaded about 4,000 times since its launch. But with about 1.3 million lawyers in the country and a public that has always been hungry for true crime, the market for legal analysis, opinion and storytelling is growing, said Adam Camras, CEO of the Legal Talk Network, the nation’s largest podcast network for legal professionals.
The election of President Donald Trump also has spurred new interest in legal issues, some podcasters say, such as the president’s executive orders and the Russia investigation.
The on-demand availability of podcasts allows busy lawyers to keep up with legal decisions, issues and trends by tuning in while commuting or exercising, Camras said.
“I have a waterproof bluetooth speaker in my shower,’’ Camras said.
There also are plenty of litigators interested in hosting podcasts.
“Like any good lawyer, I’m a narcissist,’’ joked Andrew Torrez, the Baltimorebased attorney behind the popular, humorous podcast, “Opening Arguments.” Segments include Torrez’ sidekick Thomas Smith, who is not a lawyer, trying to answer bar exam questions.
Ten years ago, only 22 percent of people 12 and over were even familiar with the term “podcasting,’’ according to New Jersey-based Edison Research. Now, 60 percent are, according to the company’s latest telephone survey of English and Spanish speakers. Podcasts are most popular with affluent, educated listeners who are 18-54, the survey found.
Some lawyers were ahead of the curve. “Lawyer 2 Lawyer,’’ launched in 2005, is believed to be the longestrunning legal podcast and continues to be on virtually every top 10 list. Boston-based attorney Bob Ambrogi said he and co-host J. Craig Williams started the project for fun, building on their already strong presence on social media.
“It just took off,’’ he said. “Somebody in Russia was even using our podcast to teach English.’’
Typically, legal podcasts are free and hosts aren’t paid for their time. But some say developing a high-profile can showcase a lawyer’s expertise and allow private attorneys to bill clients more for their time.
So far, the industry is generally “pre-revenue,” while companies work on building an audience in hopes of future large profits. The Legal Talk Network, for instance, currently brings in some revenue by charging sponsors a fee to be mentioned in a podcast, and also produces shows for bar associations, law schools and mass media companies like Thomson Reuters, Camras said.
For Singh and Khan, podcasting is a labor of love. Close friends outside work, they chat easily on “Aider & Abbettor” about O.J. Simpson’s parole, immigration raids since Trump’s election, and the need for more diverse jury pools. In one episode, Khan, who has a long-running blog on tumblr.com called “Closing Arguments,’’ explained why even though he’s a Muslim, he doesn’t support more jail time for a woman who vandalized the Davis Islamic Center.
Despite the new podcast’s limited reach, there are signs that their message may be sinking in, with at least one member of their toughest audience — prosecutors.
Erin West, a Santa Clara County deputy district attorney who has tuned into their podcast, said she disagrees with a lot of their views but finds it helpful to know how the defense looks at things.
In one episode, Singh and Khan talk about how close they get to clients during trial, emotionally and even physically, including straightening their ties before court and patting them reassuringly.
“I always thought that was just a tactic,’’ West said, “but it doesn’t seem like it with them. It made me think of defendants as more human.’’
Their boss, Public Defender Molly O’Neal, is already a fan.
“The humanization of criminal defendants is critical to ending mass incarceration,’’ she said, “and if that can be done through a contemporary, social media mechanism, I’m all for it.’’