USA TODAY International Edition
Rove on Trump: ‘ Hail fellow,’ then insult
Republican strategist Karl Rove, best known for running George W. Bush’s presidential campaigns in 2000 and 2004, has a book out about a campaign long past. The Triumph of William McKinley: Why the Election of 1896 Still
Matters, published Tuesday by Simon & Schuster, makes the case that McKinley’s groundbreaking candidacy has lessons for Republicans today. Questions and answers have been edited for length and clarity.
Q: I’ll bite: Why does the election of 1896 still matter?
A: The politics of the Gilded Age look like the politics of America today. The two parties are knocked up right against each other. Nobody’s got a dominant position. ... We’d had five presidential elections in a row in which nobody got 50% of the vote. Two men were elected with a minority of the popularity vote and a majority of the Electoral College. One of those involved a five- month- long dispute about the votes in Florida. ... Nothing got done, and the acrimony in Congress makes today look like a
kumbaya meeting around the campfire. ... Then along comes McKinley. ... He wins the election, and the next 36 years look a lot different.
Q: McKinley reached out to a new flood of immigrants. You write that if he had just doubled down on Republican voters, he would have lost. Do you worry GOP candidates are doing that now?
A: I worry that we better have a nominee who understands that in order to win the election we have to get people to vote for us who heretofore have not necessarily been reliable Republicans. ... We better realize we’re at a historic high among white voters. ... We need to hold that roughly 60% of the white vote, but we need to do better among people who are not Republican and who are not white.
Q: Let’s talk about the 2016 election. You called Donald Trump “a complete idiot,” and he called you “a total moron.”
A: What I may or may not have said was said off the record. His was in a tweet.
Q: Your speech at Missouri Boys’ State?
A: Yeah. That was off the record. But look, I don’t agree with his policies. And look, he’s not a conservative. He’s not been a Republican for more than a short period for time, out of convenience. But he has tapped into this angst inside the Republican Party and inside America that is so concerned about what the president has done that they want somebody that will pick up a brick and throw it through the plate glass window, and he speaks to that an- ger and that concern. As a result, he’s got a high floor and a low ceiling.
Q: You wrote in “The Wall Street Journal” in July that he couldn’t win the nomination. Do you still think that’s impossible?
A: I still think he’s unlikely to win it. I don’t want to say the chances are zero or 5%. But I think it’s unlikely that he wins the nomination.
Q: On Sunday, Trump opened the door to running as an independent. George H. W. Bush blames independent Ross Perot with costing him the election in 1992. Could Trump?
A: I think he could be problematic, but I also think this: It’s a heck of a lot more difficult to get on the ballot now in 2016 as an independent candidate than it was in 1992. And second of all, with all due respect to Mr. Trump, Ross Perot had a clearly defined problem with a commonsense, practical solution: “I’m going to get under the hood and fix the problem of the debt and the deficit,” and he knew what in the heck he was talking about. I’m not certain that’s true of The Donald. Here’s a guy who several weeks ago said we don’t need to worry about ISIS ( the Islamic State). ... And today it’s, “We need to bomb the expletive out of ISIS.”
Q: Have the attacks in Paris and Mali changed the political landscape here?
A: They have accelerated the growth of the role of terrorism in the election. I think it was already an issue that was growing, simply because we were watching beheadings in the Middle East and discussion about taking Mosul and Raqqa so forth, but this has accelerated that, and it will at least for the foreseeable issue be as a close second issue to the economy.
Q: Trump criticizes the record of your groups, American Crossroads and Crossroads Grassroots, in winning elections.
A: Here’s the point. There’s Donald Trump, who is paying attention to me for reasons that are completely beyond me. He’s got a limited amount of time that even he can fill. Why does he waste his early morning hours tweeting out that I’m a total loser and a moron? It’s also funny because in person, he’s entirely different. A week ago Monday, I was at Fox ( News). He’s there advertising his book. ... He comes in and he’s his jovial self and we shake hands and he says, “It’s a weird contest,” and I say, “Yes, I’ve just been writing about a weirder contest.” ... He starts gesticulating toward me. ... “I want this guy” — pointing to me — “in my corner. I want him on my side.” I said, “No, you don’t. You call me a loser and say we spent $ 480 million and didn’t win a single election. Who do you think you’re kidding? No, you don’t.” And we laughed and had a cordial conversation and wished each other well, and off we went. It’s the hail- fellow- well- met and then it’s the ugly tweet in the middle of the night.
And look, he’s not a conservative. He’s not been a Republican for more than a short period for time, out of convenience.