USA TODAY International Edition
Trump lawyer Giuliani says ‘truth isn’t truth’
Declares president won’t be rushed into testifying
WASHINGTON – Donald Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani on Sunday said he won’t let special counsel Robert Mueller rush him into an interview with the president, arguing investigators could trap Trump into lying based on their interpretation of the facts.
“I’m not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,” Giuliani said during an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
“When you tell me, you know, that he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth, and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth, not the truth,” Giuliani said.
Giuliani, a former New York City mayor who has become the leading voice on Trump’s defense team, then entered into an unusual back-andforth with “Meet the Press” host Chuck Todd about the definition of truth. “Truth is truth,” Todd replied. “No, it isn’t truth,” Giuliani said. “Truth isn’t truth.”
“Truth isn’t truth?” Todd said at one point in the exchange. “Mr. Mayor, do you realize ... this is going to become a bad meme.”
As an example, Giuliani said the president and former FBI director James Comey have sharply conflicting accounts about fired White House national security adviser Mike Flynn.
Giuliani has said the president never had a conversation with Comey about ending the FBI’s investigation into Flynn. That contradicts a memo Comey wrote at the time, in which he said Trump asked him to let go of the Flynn matter.
“Donald Trump says, ‘I didn’t talk about Flynn with Comey,’ ” Giuliani said Sunday. “Comey says, ‘You did talk about it,’ so tell me what the truth is.”
Comey took to Twitter a few hours later with his response. “Truth exists and truth matters,” he tweeted. “Truth has always been the touchstone of our country’s justice system and political life. People who lie are held accountable.”
Sunday’s exchange with Todd was not the first memorable soundbite about honesty to come from Giuliani in recent days. Last week, he told CNN’s Chris Cuomo that “nowadays” facts “are in the eye of the beholder.”
Mueller is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians – a charge Trump has vehemently denied. Comey’s claims about the Flynn conversation and Trump’s later firing of Comey likely are a key issue in any potential obstruction of justice charges.
“Truth isn’t truth? Mr. Mayor, do you realize ... this is going to become a bad meme.”
Chuck Todd “Meet the Press” moderator