‘Some people in the High Command should have been demoted’
WE continue our interview with Cde Tapson Ncube, pseudonym Makhula Thebe, and today he resumes the narration of his participation in the armed struggle by focusing on how he survived following his release from detention by the Zipra High Command.
Following his detention Cde Ncube was blocked from attending the Conference of Militants despite being seconded by about 300 guerillas based at CGT2 Camp.
The conference was addressed by Zapu president, Dr Joshua Nkomo. In today’s interview with Assistant Editor Mkhululi Sibanda (MS) Cde Ncube talks about his meeting with the then Zipra Political Commissar, the late General Lookout Masuku and his thoughts about how the armed struggle was being prosecuted.
A maverick Cde Ncube who later on operated in Lupane and then in Nkayi takes aim at the Zipra High Command for what he called suppression of comrades with different opinions and the delay in the deployment of guerillas. Below are excerpts of the interview:
MS: After being blocked from attending the Conference of Militants, what was the next move for you?
Cde Ncube: The High Command had to act fast as they did not want the party president, Dr Joshua Nkomo to know that some of the people who were supposed to be delegates had been detained there at Freedom Camp (FC). So they quickly moved me to JZ Camp, which was a facility for boys aged 15 and below. It was for children who had not attained the age to undergo military training, so they had to attend school. That is where I was taken to and on my arrival there I found Jiji and the other 14 comrades whom we had been detained together. They had sent them there earlier on while I was trying to find my way into the conference.
MS: Who took you to JZ?
Cde Ncube: I was taken by Dingani who was a high ranking officer in the Zipra Military Intelligence Department (MID) and was the same guy who was with Nikita Mangena when I was ejected from the conference. Dingani was in the company of another MID officer. We travelled well to JZ without any incident and on arrival he handed me over to the authorities there. I was surprised to see Jiji and the other comrades there. Being taken to JZ to spend time with those children was demoralising, we had not gone to war for that. We had left Rhodesia to undergo military training so we could fight the enemy, not to spend playing with children. Then the following day, Lameck Mafela (late General Lookout Masuku) arrived at JZ and said he needed to talk to me. Mafela at that time was the Zipra Political Commissar.
MS: What was Masuku’s message? Cde Ncube: He ordered the command element to bring me to him and then suggested that we move to a secluded spot within the camp where we sat down. We spoke for an hour, it was the two of us. He did not ask oJiji and others to be present, he was only interested in me. He asked if I had any grievance and my answer was that I did not have any. He then said so what was the problem. I had told myself that I would not say anything but when he started asking me what was the problem, I shot back. I told him that before my arrest by Eddie Sigoge I had no problem or any grievance, but since my detention now I had some grievances against the High Command with the way I had been treated. I was very frank with Masuku that despite the fact that I had been chosen by more than 300 comrades at CGT2 I had been blocked from attending the Conference of Militants. I told Masuku that I was disappointed that members of the High Command were showing dictatorial tendencies, something that we were fighting against. I ended by telling him that I was not here for confrontation, but to play a part in moving the wheels of the revolution forward. But the others and I were disappointed with the way some people were doing as they pleased.
MS: As you were talking, what was Masuku’s reaction?
Cde Ncube: He was accommodative as we had lunch together. However, when I looked at him closely I noticed that he was a bit uneasy, to me that was a sign he had no power and was afraid of challenging or pointing some of the bad tendencies that were being practised by his colleagues in the High Command. That was day one and he left, saying he was going to report back and obviously he was going to report back to Nikita. The following day he was back and we sat down again, the two of us. He asked what my opinion was of the command structure and I said it was not for me to say anything as the real commander of Zipra, Joshua Nkomo was now in Zambia. Nkomo had moved to Zambia following the death of Jason Ziyapapa Moyo in a parcel bomb in January 1977 to take full command of Zipra and direct the operations of the war from exile. While we were still talking with Mafela there was a radio broadcast from the Rhodesians that children at JZ Camp right where we were, were dying of hunger. I took the opportunity to point out to Masuku that the Rhodesian propaganda was in full swing while thina we were a bit behind. I pointed out that measures should be taken to counter that.
MS: But was it true that there was no food at JZ Camp?
Cde Ncube: That was a blue lie, during the days when I was there I was even surprised by the way those children were fed. They were eating well and even had the luxury of having meat. Then Masuku left and came again the following day. He asked me why some of us seemed to have personal hatred of the commanders. I told him that there was no need to continue digging information from me when they had blocked me from putting the message across at the Conference of Militants. I said to Masuku I shared what I had been told, Saul Gwakuba Ndlovu had presented during the Conference of Militants. Gwakuba had called for a more radical approach and restructuring of the command element.
MS: That brings me to the question, if you had been allowed to attend the Conference what were you going to tell Dr Nkomo?
Cde Ncube: I was going to capture the mood of the guerillas both at the rear and the front. The guerillas were not happy with some of the commanders especially at the top. To make matters worse the commanders were doing anything to repulse that talk, they were doing all sorts of things like ill-treating some of the guerillas, just like what I went through. It was common to hear guerillas speaking among themselves saying Zipra had been infiltrated by the enemy agents. So in my presentation I was going to ask Dr Nkomo to reshuffle the command element and even demote some of them. In my presentation I was going to suggest that all the senior commanders starting with Nikita Mangena should be redeployed as representatives to countries which Zapu had relations with. It was my feeling that they should give way to more progressive revolutionaries. In fact I wanted to tell the Conference that Mangena should be sent to the Soviet Union as Zapu Ambassador there and the same should apply to his colleagues in the High Command who should have been sent to other countries where we had missions.
MS: You seem to have had a personal dislike for Mangena who has been described by some former Zipra combatants as an outstanding strategist and soldier.
Cde Ncube: I had nothing personal against Nikita even if he threw me into detention pits at FC. It’s true that he was a brilliant soldier. However, I was not impressed with lack of foresight. Are you aware that Mangena and a majority of people in the High Command did not have field experience. They never crossed the Zambezi River on dinghies like for example Ananias (General PV Sibanda) and Retired Colonel Tshinga Dube. In fact a majority of people in the High Command were always in offices in Lusaka. You know the High Command kept soldiers in camps instead of deploying them to the front while our colleagues in Zanla were gaining ground. Do you know that Zanla was pushing all the way from Mozambique up to Matabeleland South while our own guerillas were being kept in camps in Zambia. There was also the reluctance to deploy heavy weapons to the front. What pains me most is that those heavy weapons were deployed during the ceasefire when Zipra forces were hunting down fellow guerrillas in Tsholotsho who were reluctant to move in to the Assembly Points because they were not sure of their security. All sorts of heavy weapons that we had not seen during our operations at the front, we saw them when they were turned against our fellow comrades who had lived in the bush for a long time.
MS: But at that time Dr Nkomo was in Zambia and could have noticed those things that you are talking about.
Cde Ncube: Yes, it’s true that he was in Zambia, but he had just arrived and did not want to muddle things up. He was doing things in a more tactical manner.
To be continued